Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

That is awesome!

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

> alex . Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Hell yeah! Cant wait to see this shit going. You may be the first one

> stateside to build one of these!

>

> If you are on insta, check out @gpracingparts he builds a ton of these

> if you need inspiration/answers

I know there must be engine cases somewhere out there, but I guess I may be the first to actually start a Sacre motor.

For posterity, and for info gatherers abroad I will give some details about what is needed to assemble these motors.

They take standard minarelli horizontal main bearings, 6204's.

It takes two 20x30x5(-7) seals for the crank (if I recall correctly). Which are peugoet seals/vespa trans output seals. Grab them from Treats, DOS, or AVX Seals.

The crank can be from any minarelli horizontal equipped motor, but I chose to limit my range to LC models just to insure compatibility. Late model Aerox, Jog RR, MBK Booster, and Malaguti F12 Phantom all work.

As such, any of the crank-mounted gear from those work as well. Any ignition for these work with the black adapter ringn supplied with the treats case, from stock replacement to HPI to inner rotor.

Variator from the same models fit and work with some tweaking, as the scooters run the variator reverse (weights in). I will hopefully be able to work out spacing/alignment kinks once I have the subframe in my hands.

The intake and reeds is from the 2t Vespa scoots, a la ET2 and Piaggio Zip/Typhoon. Treats includes the short spigot intake which is pretty much a direct shot for 24-28mm carbs. I found that the reed screws contact the cases as they are, so I clearanced the cases to allow full insertion.

Cylinders are whatever you can find/afford for minarelli horizontal. That said, I opted to forego stroker cranks and kits for a stock stroke 47.6mm Athena. Matching was really simple with the VERY raw ports of the Sacre cases.

Putting the engine together was simple, no gasket, just some tribond.

Other than that, I am just waiting on my subframe and rear trans support to finish being fabbed and shipped over. Than I can mount the gear on my grande and start working on the more time-consuming, but less costly items.

@Alex, yeah I have been following GP Racing as well as DBR Factory, who is making my subframe and trans support.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Yeah dude this is great info and DBRacing is a great fabricator

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

TOP GUN™ ANDY ⚔ (LSLB) ⚔ /

dilly put that info on the wiki bud

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

I'll go ahead and make a wiki post when I got some time set aside.

IMG_20190211_203911.jpg

Top end all buttoned up. Going to make a couple block off plates and do some leakdown tests etc before I move along any farther.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

That looks good!

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I'll go ahead and make a wiki post when I got some time set aside.

>

> Top end all buttoned up. Going to make a couple block off plates and do

> some leakdown tests etc before I move along any farther.

Almost hate to get that dirty . ;)

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I'll go ahead and make a wiki post when I got some time set aside.

>

> >

>

> > Top end all buttoned up. Going to make a couple block off plates and

> do

>

> > some leakdown tests etc before I move along any farther.

>

> Almost hate to get that dirty . ;)

Id almost agree, but I think the ride will be worth sacrificing some shiny parts.

This is going to utilize a cut to fit Tecnigas Triops which has a starting upward power curve at 7.5k, peaks around 10.5-11 and should over rev to about 12.5k.

Transmission is a minarelli 107mm rear pulley/clutch adapted to Vespa single speed gear set. With the increased rear pulley size and power output I don't think I'll have an issue pulling the lower numeric single speed gears.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Vespa_Sacre_Cases

Made a short, more permanent thread. I'll update once I get more into the tuning/mounting

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Is there any advantage to using the Sacre cases over just cutting everything off the outside of a Jog case?

Does it have the stator mount holes repositioned to retime the engine to run opposite the Yamaha?

Only builds I've seen based on these cases use lots of race parts. Would it be possible to build it using a stock style flywheel and topend? Or does it have to be liquid cooled?

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Thomas TPRF Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Is there any advantage to using the Sacre cases over just cutting

> everything off the outside of a Jog case?

>

> Does it have the stator mount holes repositioned to retime the engine to

> run opposite the Yamaha?

>

> Only builds I've seen based on these cases use lots of race parts. Would

> it be possible to build it using a stock style flywheel and topend? Or

> does it have to be liquid cooled?

I guess advantages depends on your needs. If you are just looking to create a suspended engine case, the jog could work with enough milling to creat proper mounting surfaces. The biggest issues I can see are overcoming the huge case overlap where the trans is housed. By the time you mill that down enough to mount the variator in line, there may be very little left.

Another advantage of the Sacre cases is intake placement, and the ignition mounting adapter. Both of which are necessary when fitting into a vespa frame.

The stator mounting plate is just a riser/adapter to fit an ignition. Whichever ignition is used will have to be run keyless. Although I never attempted to use this with a stock style ignition.

You could definitely use a stock style ignition, if you wanted to. And a 49cc cylinder would be a cool thing (if a bit lackluster compared to the other offerings), but this entire thing was designed to take Jog RR parts, which are liquid cooled. I don't think you will find enough room and routing area to have a usable fan setup to utilize an air-cooled cylinder.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

Just because I was on break at work and wanted to take a peak at the idea of cutting down a stock motor.

Here are the stock cases, bare.

oemal77002000_oemal77002000_03.jpg
oe3vle515000_oe3vle515000_04.jpg

The actual portions that hold the crank are very much insulated by the structure of the ignition/water pump cover on one side, and the variator and oil pump drive structures on the other. Unless you had a set with nothing to lose and a lot of time with a TIG and mill, I don't think it's an economical move.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

It's an idea I've dwelled heavily on in the past. Doing it in the shed with no mill my idea was to saw/flap wheel off everything that is unnecessary, drill the engine bolt holes all the way through, cut aluminum plates for either side to use for mounting, shim between the cases and those plates as necessary. I decided to go a different direction with that clusterfuck though.

The intake being on top wouldn't really work on anything but a Ciao or similar I suppose.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I'll go ahead and make a wiki post when I got some time set aside.

>

> Top end all buttoned up. Going to make a couple block off plates and do

> some leakdown tests etc before I move along any farther.

Anymore progress on this build?

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

> - Joe - Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I'll go ahead and make a wiki post when I got some time set aside.

>

> >

>

> > Top end all buttoned up. Going to make a couple block off plates and

> do

>

> > some leakdown tests etc before I move along any farther.

>

> Anymore progress on this build?

I have been waiting for a year for a subframe, which at this point is never coming.

DBR Factory =/= Trustworthy.

Other than that, I have the motor setup and trans/wheel set. I have come to the point now where I need to model a subframe and have it cut. Sad, but I can't really do anything with the Sacre motor without a proper subframe.

The bolt-together one from treats won't accomodate without serious modification, at which point I would rather just make my own.

This was kind of always a long-term project, I just wish I had a roller vs. a pile of parts.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

this is rad, but i'm with whoever was saying this is outside the realm of the spirit of mopeds. nothing at all wrong with that, but it's a little hard to still call it a moped when you're replacing the entirety of the drivetrain with scooter parts. kinda like putting a high hp engine in a mini cooper and converting it to awd - rad as fuck, but definitely not in the spirit of that vehicle.

that said, project binky is one of my favorite builds on youtube, and i can't wait to see this done!

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

That sucks I was hoping to hear, yeah it’s together I’ve been ripping it all summer.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

campeona del mundo /

fuck dbr. they owe us a lot of pipes.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

> campeona del mundo Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> fuck dbr. they owe us a lot of pipes.

Let me know if you make any headway or get a better contact than the owner.

Or, conversely if you're going over there to settle up let me know and I will pay you to pick up my shit.

Either way, I should have just made my own from the start. That money would have gone a long way towards having someone plasma out my own.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

We got our pipes from DBR but it took longer than it should have (months) and only part of the order delivered. We received the correct number of pipes but there were duplicates of the same pipe with none of the special requests.

Re: Sacre Vespa Cases

Dirty30 Dillon /

I am tempted to reach out to GP Racing, but also don't wanna lose another 300Euro+

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