Re: What gas you runnin?

> Marc Friedman Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I've been using aviation gas which has lead. I posted a "white" plug

> elsewhere. My buddy Jerry and I gonthe the airport for it. Supposedly to

> keep the rubber from ethanol attack. Really unsure of the efficacy.

Av gas will not deposit yellow crust inside your carb or clog jets , along side of allowing any rubber type components to survive .

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Matt Spad Wrote:

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> > LSLB Lou Wrote:

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> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > Tl;dr so sick you used a dr foo screenshot for this thread avatar

>

> >

>

> > I knew Martin was into mopeds

>

> My brother josh...

Are you saying you know Martin Cabello III aka Dr Foo aka ti_me_to_mass_so_i_exist?

Re: What gas you runnin?

> LSLB Lou Wrote:

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> > Matt Spad Wrote:

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> > > LSLB Lou Wrote:

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> >

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> > > Tl;dr so sick you used a dr foo screenshot for this thread avatar

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> >

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> > >

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> >

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> > > I knew Martin was into mopeds

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> >

>

> > My brother josh...

>

> Are you saying you know Martin Cabello III aka Dr Foo aka

> ti_me_to_mass_so_i_exist?

A little cryptography for you. . .

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Matt Spad Wrote:

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> > LSLB Lou Wrote:

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> > -------------------------------------------------------

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> > > Matt Spad Wrote:

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> > > > LSLB Lou Wrote:

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> > >

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> > > > -------------------------------------------------------

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> >

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> > >

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> > > > Tl;dr so sick you used a dr foo screenshot for this thread avatar

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> >

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> > >

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> >

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> > > >

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> >

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> > >

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> >

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> > > > I knew Martin was into mopeds

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> >

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> > >

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> >

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> > > My brother josh...

>

> >

>

> > Are you saying you know Martin Cabello III aka Dr Foo aka

>

> > ti_me_to_mass_so_i_exist?

>

> A little cryptography for you. . .

62A1CB8B-BA6E-410B-B32C-3A1A0B02422A.png

Re: What gas you runnin?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Ethanol holds its weight in water.

Rubbers ok. Steel tanks iron parts pipe will rust. Viton a favorite additive for seals and needle coatings especially Austrian and frenchies will dissolve in minutes after exposure...

I run 86 octane regular

Re: What gas you runnin?

Maitland Of the Loin /

I'll run whatever, even old gas as long as it fires up

I like to spoil myself in Ohio where you can get 94 octane from a pump

Re: What gas you runnin?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

I can on occasion stop by the Texaco near the airport 107 octane for ultralights...

No ethanol...

I still run the cheap istaka green bottle oil but every other month I will run marvel mystery oil @ 1.1 with the istaka.

I have run the cheap oil so long I can tell mix ratio by taste. Temp colors are clear in the plug. The marvel decarbonizes the cyl and exhaust port...

Re: What gas you runnin?

> ♣Slew Foot♣ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I can on occasion stop by the Texaco near the airport 107 octane for

> ultralights...

>

> No ethanol...

>

> I still run the cheap istaka green bottle oil but every other month I

> will run marvel mystery oil @ 1.1 with the istaka.

>

> I have run the cheap oil so long I can tell mix ratio by taste. Temp

> colors are clear in the plug. The marvel decarbonizes the cyl and

> exhaust port...

I was going to say go to walmart and get some oil but supertech is made by the same people. http://www.warrenoil.com/MSDS-Spec/PDS/Itasca/PDS%20-%20Itasca%20Outdoors%202-Cycle.pdf

Whatever works, works :)

Re: What gas you runnin?

Bad Cadillac™ /

People spend way too much time thinking about what gas and oil to use...

Re: What gas you runnin?

Well, it's pretty well agreed to try to minimize exposure to ethanol-laced gas. When I get down to FL, first thing I'll do is extract the ethanol from some Marathon premium 93 octane and store it for the StreetMate and the chain saws.

Re: What gas you runnin?

> ♣Slew Foot♣ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I can on occasion stop by the Texaco near the airport 107 octane for

> ultralights...

>

> No ethanol...

>

> I still run the cheap istaka green bottle oil but every other month I

> will run marvel mystery oil @ 1.1 with the istaka.

>

> I have run the cheap oil so long I can tell mix ratio by taste. Temp

> colors are clear in the plug. The marvel decarbonizes the cyl and

> exhaust port...

God I hope so! That Istaka is trash. I would not even put it in me weedwacker.

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Bad Cadillac™ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> People spend way too much time thinking about what gas and oil to use...

Right, methanol and nitro methane are where its at.

Re: What gas you runnin?

> live ɘvil Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Bad Cadillac™ Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > People spend way too much time thinking about what gas and oil to

> use...

>

> Right, methanol and nitro methane are where its

> at.

ok so that guy is smoking some really good pcp. However recently I've been thinking about the ancient mayans and how they distilled pure moonshine (aka ethanol) effortlessly. I had an idea to make a setup like them one day so I never have to buy gas again for my car. What would be the types of modifications I'd have to do to get a 2 stroke moped to run on e100 in theory? Is it as simple as a carb upjet?(edited)

Re: What gas you runnin?

I use 120 Racing fuel and replaced the carb with a bottle of NOS on my Sachs, I have clutches on auto delivery.

Re: What gas you runnin?

> . Chudas. Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I use 120 Racing fuel and replaced the carb with a bottle of NOS on my

> Sachs, I have clutches on auto delivery.

LOL! `clutches on auto-ship'...……..HaHaaaaa!

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Matt Spad Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > live ɘvil Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > > Bad Cadillac™ Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > People spend way too much time thinking about what gas and oil to

>

> > use...

>

> >

>

> > Right, methanol and nitro methane are where its

>

> > at.

>

> ok so that guy is smoking some really good pcp. However recently I've

> been thinking about the ancient mayans and how they distilled pure

> moonshine (aka ethanol) effortlessly. I had an idea to make a setup like

> them one day so I never have to buy gas again for my car. What would be

> the types of modifications I'd have to do to get a 2 stroke moped to run

> on e100 in theory? Is it as simple as a carb upjet?

Ya, hes an idiot. Did you see his spark plug after he removed it?

You need to upjet about 50% more with alcohol than gasoline.

alcohol-fuel-basics

Re: What gas you runnin?

1. OP pic 10/10; actually thought the thread was about gas cans at first glance

2. Most all pump gas is pretty terrible for anything carburetted - I treat all fuel with Yamaha Fuel Med Rx or Engine Med Rx

Removes ethanol, stabilizes fuel - the eng med softens carbon deposits, removes/prevents varnishing etc.. supposedly will ‘clean’ your carb

I work at a large Powersports dealership in the service dept and we use and recommend it in every tank.. have witnessed the results first hand it actually works

Re: What gas you runnin?

> river 2strokes Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> 1. OP pic 10/10; actually thought the thread was about gas cans at first

> glance

>

> 2. Most all pump gas is pretty terrible for anything carburetted - I

> treat all fuel with Yamaha Fuel Med Rx or Engine Med Rx

>

> Removes ethanol, stabilizes fuel - the eng med softens carbon deposits,

> removes/prevents varnishing etc.. supposedly will ‘clean’ your carb

>

> I work at a large Powersports dealership in the service dept and we use

> and recommend it in every tank.. have witnessed the results first hand

> it actually works

Well,yeah, but mopeds are all about cheap...…...what's it cost to treat a 5 gallon can?

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> but mopeds are all about cheap...…..

Not counting what guys spend on carbs & jets , kits and pipes or other 'accessories' . ;)

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > river 2strokes Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > 1. OP pic 10/10; actually thought the thread was about gas cans at

> first

>

> > glance

>

> >

>

> > 2. Most all pump gas is pretty terrible for anything carburetted - I

>

> > treat all fuel with Yamaha Fuel Med Rx or Engine Med Rx

>

> >

>

> > Removes ethanol, stabilizes fuel - the eng med softens carbon

> deposits,

>

> > removes/prevents varnishing etc.. supposedly will ‘clean’ your carb

>

> >

>

> > I work at a large Powersports dealership in the service dept and we

> use

>

> > and recommend it in every tank.. have witnessed the results first hand

>

> > it actually works

>

> Well,yeah, but mopeds are all about cheap...…...what's it cost to treat

> a 5 gallon can?

Whats your time worth, both riding and wrenching? Anything that keeps the bike running is worth it, the trick is of course to use non-ethanol fuel in the first place, and to also turn off the petcock every time the bike will sit for more than a few hrs, I try and cut it off a minute or so before I would shut the engine off, let it run dry.

Re: What gas you runnin?

I ride cheap with no ethanol, but I was curious as to the cost.

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Stephen Keller Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Don Ohio Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > > river 2strokes Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > 1. OP pic 10/10; actually thought the thread was about gas cans at

>

> > first

>

> >

>

> > > glance

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > 2. Most all pump gas is pretty terrible for anything carburetted - I

>

> >

>

> > > treat all fuel with Yamaha Fuel Med Rx or Engine Med Rx

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Removes ethanol, stabilizes fuel - the eng med softens carbon

>

> > deposits,

>

> >

>

> > > removes/prevents varnishing etc.. supposedly will ‘clean’ your carb

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > I work at a large Powersports dealership in the service dept and we

>

> > use

>

> >

>

> > > and recommend it in every tank.. have witnessed the results first

> hand

>

> >

>

> > > it actually works

>

> >

>

> > Well,yeah, but mopeds are all about cheap...…...what's it cost to

> treat

>

> > a 5 gallon can?

>

> Whats your time worth, both riding and wrenching? Anything that keeps

> the bike running is worth it, the trick is of course to use non-ethanol

> fuel in the first place, and to also turn off the petcock every time the

> bike will sit for more than a few hrs, I try and cut it off a minute or

> so before I would shut the engine off, let it run dry.

You gotta speak boomer talk for it to be understood: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Re: What gas you runnin?

The small bottle of fuel/eng med is $2.99 and treats 5gal, fuel med also sold in larger container for more bang for buck

Re: What gas you runnin?

Well, that's not bad as additives go. If people don't remove the ethanol, it's probably a good choice. Thanks!

Re: What gas you runnin?

> ken gilbert Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Larry Baltz Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > High octane fuel has less energy per volume than lower octane fuel.

>

> no, that's not true.

OK, to clarify my statement - I think technically it IS true but in practice the difference in energy per volume between 88 and 92 octane is negligible. When looking at petroleum based fuels with a greater percentage octane differential (like gasoline vs. LPG) energy per volume IS significantly lower, and the trend continues as octane increases. The energy released from different octane gasolines would be equal or nearly equal if the fuel is burned completely. In lower compression engines without advanced spark or a high enough compression ratio there's a good chance that the higher octane fuel will not be burned effectively resulting in less energy utilized/oz.

Then again, it's just mopeds...

Re: What gas you runnin?

With slight variations — depending on the crude oil and the refining and blending processes used in production — all gasoline grades contain the same amount of chemical energy. When combusted, premium (high-octane) gasoline and the less-expensive (and less-glamorous) regular, and all grades in between, provide the same amount of thermal energy, or heat, which an engine uses to generate the mechanical power that moves a vehicle.

from https://engineering.mit.edu/engage/ask-an-engineer/whats-the-difference-between-premium-grade-and-regular-gasoline/

Re: What gas you runnin?

I saw that article too, Ken. My point being without the engine characteristics that make higher octane gas necessary (high intake pressures, high compression ratios, advanced timing), high octane gas is likely not being fully consumed because of it's slower combustion rate. In that case, then you are getting less energy per volume on standard performance engines, potentially worse performance, and a bigger drain on your gas budget.

I made my initial comment based upon recollections of a senior thesis I did years ago in college when this was a hot topic as lead had recently been removed as a gas additive (for good reason). One of my professors at the time was always berating us "know it all" students for wasting our money putting premium gas in our Pintos and VWs. Based on the research I did back then my conclusions were that premium gas was at best a waste of money, and at worst, also a cause of degraded performance unless the engine needed the higher octane to prevent pre-ignition. I think I got an A, but maybe it was confirmation bias on the professor's part.

I read this today: "The other rarely-discussed reality with high-octane fuels associated with "high performance" is that as octane increases, the specific gravity and energy content of the fuel per unit of weight are reduced. The net result is that to make a given amount of power, more high-octane fuel must be burned in the engine. Lighter and "thinner" fuel also has a lower specific heat, so the practice of running an engine "rich" to use excess fuel to aid in cooling requires richer and richer mixtures as octane increases." Here: Octane WiKi

Re: What gas you runnin?

> Larry Baltz Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I saw that article too, Ken. My point being without the engine

> characteristics that make higher octane gas necessary (high intake

> pressures, high compression ratios, advanced timing), high octane gas is

> likely not being fully consumed because of it's slower combustion rate.

this may be part of the key...

what evidence do we have that higher octane gas necessarily has a slower flame front speed?

my experience and reading of the available data sheets has shown me that those two metrics are not directly (inversely) related. unfortunately flame propagation speed measurements/ratings are not easy to come by which make it difficult to spot trends. it takes some digging to get those burn rate numbers...

I find the wiki statement regarding specific gravity vs. octane to be a bit suspicious as it is uncited. i remember going over a similar discussion a few years ago in a different forum during which i stumbled across https://www.vpracingfuels.com/master-fuel-table/ which shows multiple examples of fuels with higher octane AND higher SG, and vice versa. while the two metrics may often be observed as inversely correlated there are exceptions which would indicate they are not causally related, as can be seen after a few minutes reviewing VP's matrix.

i've seen it bandied about for decades that higher octane means less energy, and higher octane means slower flame, and i've just not seen the data to back that up. while in some fuels that may be the case, in others it is not. however, i do agree that running higher octane than is necessary to prevent detonation is a foolish way to spend (waste) money!

Re: What gas you runnin?

No matter what the data says , higher octane fuel stops / prevents pinging .

That has been the case in the Honda in line 4 cylinders for years .

I can't help but think it's the same for any other motor .

Re: What gas you runnin?

Well said, Ken. At this point unless I come across some information that is pertinent to the discussion we've been having, I'll just leave it that I don't believe high octane fuel does much good for most mopeds and could actually result in reduced performance or economy in many cases. Other than preventing pre-ignition I am not aware of any other benefit of high octane fuel over a good quality regular gasoline.

Cheers!

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