Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Im running that head on 2 bikes, my Za50 Magnum and my wifes Swinger e50 with no oring...im pretty sure ;) I changed my 18 tooth to a 20 on my Za50 and noticed the difference ripping hills for sure.

I left my wifes alone and it rips with the 13x45 gear setup. The only difference in the 2 heads I have is one is set up for a reed, they both haul azz!! Haha

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Switch gears and upjet and see where you're at...thats where id start.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Will I am Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Switch gears and upjet and see where you're at...thats where id start.

Yup your probably trying to pull to many gears.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

It should definitely pull 17x45 no problem. Here’s why his kit rips and yours feels tame, port duration and blow down.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Puch_cylinder_kit_summary

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Daniel, I just looked at that link but don't exactly know what you're getting at - could you explain it briefly for me?

I would say I'm pretty experienced with 2 stroke engines but getting into port duration/angles & anything mathematic around that, I have yet to educate myself on. Honestly I would love to have the bolt up and go performance my roommate got out of his 65cc airsal kit, but I don't wanna fork over anymore cash so I'm committed to getting this treats kit (or Kstar?) Tuned and running properly.

I really don't think gearing will change anything, so for now, I'm going to try a higher main jet, go back to one thick base gasket, and then recheck timing. I did want to note - when I took apart my original setup where my low-end was great, there was some gasket maker that had oozed over the port areas and we're partially blocking airflow. When riding, it felt like the Powerband was starting to hit, but it would never fully hit/max out. I'm wondering if that small amount of airflow blockage was the reason the Powerband started to hit but didn't continue to pull hard? Any ideas on that?

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

If you have no leaks, the jetting, timing is spot and you have on you should feel some sort of distinct power band. I would keep messing with the jetting, then once you feel like it’s doing what it’s supposed to get the files out and get to work. The kstar is a super candidate for porting.

The reason why your buddies is faster in nut shell; the airsal, having higher blow down and the exhaust is timed more aggressively. It comes on hard but is more peaky, where as your kstar has 6 degrees less blowdown, and ~10 degrees less exhaust duration it will have a more broad and has a less pronounced power band. Both of you could widen and polish the exhaust, if you raise the exhaust duration you should be faster as you will have better scavenging due to the boost ports.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> It should definitely pull 17x45 no problem. Here’s why his kit rips and

> yours feels tame, port duration and blow down.

>

> https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Puch_cylinder_kit_summary

Haha yea That’s basically next to stock. The airsal is definitely a better kit but you should at least be seeing hi 40s with your kstar kit. Just buy a treats reed kit, four petal, unstuffed crank, and a phbg next time ( I have one for sale :)

PCEz out nice talking to and hearing from you. Maybe will run into each other, try keeping up!

Fucking Kyle Washburn! Yo cole Navin beat us all lol

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

High 40s with a kstar proma? No way. He would have to be geared at like 18x40 or something to get it up there. I think 38 is pretty common for people’s first mild kitted bike. 43 for second attempt and 47 for your “55mph” ripper build. I don’t get why people are so embarrassed by their average top speed, everything isn’t a pissing contest. I personally don’t care about speed, the fastest I need to go on most roads is 35 so I gear my single speeds to eat even the steepest of hills.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Geez I will try again. As I posted earlier change port timing That kit in particular is known to be way off. Raise the cylinder. Please?

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Daniel '' Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > It should definitely pull 17x45 no problem. Here’s why his kit rips

> and

>

> > yours feels tame, port duration and blow down.

>

> >

>

> > https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Puch_cylinder_kit_summary

>

> Haha yea That’s basically next to stock. The airsal is definitely a

> better kit but you should at least be seeing hi 40s with your kstar kit.

> Just buy a treats reed kit, four petal, unstuffed crank, and a phbg next

> time ( I have one for sale :)

>

> PCEz out nice talking to and hearing from you. Maybe will run into each

> other, try keeping up!

>

> Fucking Kyle Washburn! Yo cole Navin beat us all lol

Yeah I should have gone reed kit in the beginning, but going for good reliability so opted out of that, regretting it a bit tho. Good talking to you too man! Cole was beating us all but he's a great rider, awesome to see the success he's had.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

@triped dave I did raise the cylinder (2 .5mm gaskets and then a .25) and it runs worse than my single thick base gasket (.5mm). It seems like this kit runs best with the piston slightly above the exhaust port at bdc, so I'm gonna go back to 1 base gasket and use much less liquid gasket sealant to make sure it doesn't seep into any airways. It looked like the oozed gasket sealant was blocking around 30% of the airflow which might have been why it was so rich.... Also gonna toss my hi hi comp head back on and try to return this touring head to treats

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Silly question: where are you using gasket sealant? What are you using for gasket sealant?

Okay, that’s two questions. And not so silly.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Using permatex grey gasket maker, and I'm using it on base gaskets, intake gaskets, and head gasket. I had put a thick coat on my base gaskets and when I took the head of it had oozed over and covered some of the airflow... I think that could have been the issue.

I like gasket sealant because it eliminates airleaks, so I'm still going to use it, but a much much thinner layer. Going to give a go at widening the exhaust port while I'm at it, and then do a test with my hi hi comp head vs my touring head. I have a feeling that might have it running better

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Do not use gasket maker on any part of your moped. Oiled gaskets should seal if your surfaces aren’t all scratched up. If you are sealing non gasket surfaces like cases or heads, use motoseal or another anaerobic sealant. On my tomos I have a 1.5mm Aluminum spacer, no gasket on the base or head with motoseal it seals swimmingly.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Kyle Washburn Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Using permatex grey gasket maker, and I'm using it on base gaskets,

> intake gaskets, and head gasket. I had put a thick coat on my base

> gaskets and when I took the head of it had oozed over and covered some

> of the airflow... I think that could have been the issue.

>

> I like gasket sealant because it eliminates airleaks, so I'm still going

> to use it, but a much much thinner layer. Going to give a go at widening

> the exhaust port while I'm at it, and then do a test with my hi hi comp

> head vs my touring head. I have a feeling that might have it running

> better

I was afraid of this. Permeated has no place on a moped engine. Ever! No! No! No! The only thing to ever use on a base gasket is oil. Like Daniel says, the ONLY sealant to ever use, is something anaerobic, like Yamabond, Hondabond, or Motoseal. And ONLY between non-gasket surfaces.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

I watched a high end scooter tunner from Europe use rtv on the reed blocks :) made me fucking happy! Haven’t looked back , thank god from silicone gasket maker!

Silicone gasket everything!

Yea if you use two stroke oil, go on fat with it & dab some on the metal surfaces like tomahawk tuning and watch it sqeeze out the sides

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I watched a high end scooter tunner from Europe use rtv on the reed

> blocks :) made me fucking happy! Haven’t looked back , thank god from

> silicone gasket maker!

>

> Silicone gasket everything!

>

> Yea if you use two stroke oil, go on fat with it & dab some on the metal

> surfaces like tomahawk tuning and watch it sqeeze out the sides

You're such a kidder . LOL

RTV , it's good for making bad dreams come true .

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

RTV = Ruins The Value

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> RTV = Ruins The Value

I thought:

RTV = Replace the Vehicle.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Damn never knew so many were against sealant! I have seen many people use the orange rtv to seal intakes and such, so I figured it would be great to prevent any airleaks.

Guess I'm taking the cylinder off, going back to 1 base gasket with no gasket sealant, upjetting, and doing some mild exhaust porting. I have a feeling I'll be hitting the powerband pretty hard after the airflow in the cylinder is no longer restricted....

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Anybody with any motorcycle mechanical experience will tell you to throw all silicone/RTV products in the trash. It’s miserable shit! Please never use it again.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Kyle Washburn Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I have seen many people use the orange rtv to seal intakes and such, so I figured it

> would be great to prevent any airleaks.

Lemmings jumping off cliffs .

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Haha good to know. I'll report back this weekend!

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

RTV is great stuff, just a pain to remove. Most negative reactions here are probably from people who have had to remove too much of it in their lifetime.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Bas Autowas Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> RTV is just a pain to remove.

FIFY . ;)

That^ , because it caused catastrophe , requiring said RTV removal .

RTV , when exposed to petroleum products , like gas and oil , turns to a thick slimy rubbery substance that can break away from it's intended position and lodge in the exact places that end up costing way too much money and heartache . Clogging oil passages and such ...

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Bas Autowas Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> RTV is great stuff, just a pain to remove. Most negative reactions here

> are probably from people who have had to remove too much of it in their

> lifetime.

NTS: never buy a bike from Bas!

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

Hey good to know, you guys are all super helpful here! Gonna put some elbow grease into getting the current sealant cleaned off of all surfaces, then re-install and give this another go. It all makes sense now that the seeping RTV had clocked my airflow, leading to my bike running rich at ALL throttle positions. Hoping this fixes it!

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

So how are we joining e50 cases with out any silicone?

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So how are we joining e50 cases with out any silicone?

Uh, Yamabond.

Re: 70cc e50 not revving out?

> Seth B Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Bas Autowas Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > RTV is great stuff, just a pain to remove. Most negative reactions

> here

>

> > are probably from people who have had to remove too much of it in

> their

>

> > lifetime.

>

> NTS: never buy a bike from Bas!

I only use it on e50 cases and i don't know if the stuff overseas is different but i've never had trouble removing it when i applied it properly.

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