Anyone else with an electric bike?

Just ordered a Sondors Fold XS as another alternative way to travel without using my car.

I was wondering if anyone else on the forum was an ebike owner.

Whatcha got and how long have you had it? Thoughts?

I hope the fact that they’re a bike with motor and pedals makes this on-topic “enough” to post here. Apologies if not.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I did a whole build on here for my son’s electric no-ped

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,4364238

It’s still running strong and he loves it. Adults like it too.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

> Papa _ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I did a whole build on here for my son’s electric no-ped

>

> https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,4364238

>

> It’s still running strong and he loves it. Adults like it too.

Fantastic thread and awesome build! I’m sure your son is really enjoying it.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I don't have one, yet, but they are the future, and right now are in most area's in the grey zone regarding registration insurance and licensing that real mopeds were in the '70s. As soon as I unload some of my gas bikes totally getting into these, I will be keeping a few gas bikes cuz I like them, but electric is so much more practical for my day to day 2 wheel needs. Many may talk shit about them, but they talked shit about cars when they were new too, the tech is good enough now that they are practical, my only gripe is they are very expensive, but starting to see used ones pop up. :)

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I used to sell ebikes. I recommend checking the electrical connections..many are hot glued instead of soldered.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I'm interested in them, but not ready to pay $2000 plus for a good one. Can they sit out in the rain on a 40 degree day for 7 hours while I'm at work and get me home reliably?

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

^ I wonder stuff like that too, but have seen guys out on the fat tire ones in the winter here, did not bother to put the window down to ask them about range, but it must be at least "ok" in the colder temps, the other good thing is you should have an easier time bringing the bike inside at work than a gas bike, hell you could charge it at work.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Electrek just ran a piece on top electric mopeds on the market right now, of course with Onyx really crushing it, and some other staples like the super73 and the new juiced scorpion, which I think has totally nailed the stepthru form and function of a moped as we've come to enjoy.

I built a cheapo electric moped last year, before reverting it to a much cheaper and far more powerful gas setup, and then used the bits to add a "hybrid" electric assist front wheel drive to a gas powered traditional moped.

I will admit, the gas ones give me much more trouble with reliability, especially with inclement (rainy) weather. I spent a lot of time waterproofing my daily rider sachs, making a special airbox and sealing all the electrics and it's still pretty uncomfortable in the rain, while the electric was solid rain shine or cold. It got slowere sooner in the coldest days, but I usually drive on the coldest days... also it's super easy to take the battery indoors.

I'm definitely still toying around with a few other e moped ideas.

that foldy sondors is a lot more "bicycle" but still looks fun:

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I can speak a bit about the rain and winter piece based on research and my experience with batteries in the cold north.

The Sondors fold XS has a very clever design where basically all major components are water resistant and cables run through the frames body. With some fenders (which they sell or could be found aftermarket) and maybe clever use of vaseline or silicon you can almost guarantee a waterproof bike. I obviously wouldn't recommend submerging the hub motor but the displays, battery, and a hub and those other major components are water resistant.

Also Sondors has been using heatshrink to wrap all their cables so that helps. The Fold XS uses hydraulic brakes which also helps avoid damage due to environment.

As for cold, 40 degrees is nothing for the ebike battery. You mayyyyyybe would see a bit of a drop in capacity but you don't see any real diminished results until you go below freezing. At worst, so up north we can see 0 to subzero temps often, you may halve your range.

So with the Fold XS I have 40-60 mile range so that would still be plenty at 20-30 miles. As Steven said you can charge at work too which is my plan (Not everyone can do this). Also the fold....folds so that makes it way easier to move around. Additionally you could always quickly remove the battery and bring it inside leaving the bike outside.

My plan is to ride this ebike year round and through the snow (sans torrential downpour or blizzard), I do have a car but I'm hopefully to replace it most of the year.

I'll link the bike I'm referring to, definitely not cheap but based on what I would spend building my own, it was well worth it.

https://shop.sondors.com/pages/foldxs

There is definitely a pay to play aspect to this and I would recommend going with a company that has been around for a few years. Sondors has grown a ton in terms of part quality and customer service over the last 5 years. Rad is also a great brand to go with.

I have a student at my elementary school and their family LOVES Rad. They have a Rad wagon which they tow two kids around on, supplies, groceries, thing looks awesome and has great components. I have absolutely seen them dropped off at school in sub-zero temps on the radwagon, it's very cool.

My choice for the fold XS was both to save space so I could throw it in my car, looks based and component based, I want to off-road and beat it up a bit. The Fold XS has some very nice features that I couldn't pass up. Our roads are also crap so I needed the XS's shocks versus the Fold X which is cheaper. Fold X can be had for 999 with the code SONDORS2020 until the end of this month. Not a bad price at all.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Attach10571_20200222_170637.jpg

Voilamart 500W kit on the base trek mtn bike. will do 25mph for about 20 miles....i ride it more than my moped and, recently, more than my nhx110

so its obviously cheap (except the indestructible hub motor). i already burned up a controller (RMA'ed a new one) but i found tutorials on how to adapt better ones. it needs a bigger battery and i can just buy one and then DIY the wire connections.

I'm really happy with it. Also, its the first *almost* new bicycle i have bought. im not used to cushy tires and seats.... now i cant go back to my road bike. (edited)

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

e-bikes are great

If you want to go super in depth you should go to http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums

its like moped army but the future

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>

> that foldy sondors is a lot more "bicycle" but still looks fun:

>

> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1439/6088/products/FoldXS_rack_fender_bag_kit_fullview1_grande.jpg?v=1565008034

Yeah it is definitely more bike looking.

I’m kind of at the point where it seems financially irresponsible to have a bunch of the same thing. If I wanna go fast I’ll take the moped. If I want to ride trails or get some exercise I’ll take the ebike.

I have a motorcycle and two mopeds that are keepers. I make enough to support the hobbies but with a child likely coming in the next few years and a house on the horizon I gotta rationalize my purchases somehow!

That being said I still have my crazy Sachs off-road build I’m doing but that’s gonna be a long slow project.

Won’t lie I’m excited to get something brand new. I always buy broken shit and fix it....mostly.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I have a much harder time finding relevant info on endless sphere.

Like I've got a DC motor that's got no mounting plate (face mount only) and it's got a 15mm drive axle with 4mm keyway, and I think people have used these motors, and just wanna figure out how to mount it and where to find a sprocket (seems it's NOT a standard motor or axle size as I'd hoped...) it's I think a "Denzel d4500"

I can find some random posts but no real relevant info.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

There's alot of part crossover but due to how prevalent electric motors are nobody knows all of them yet

Maybe these wjlm work? https://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/power-transmission/sprockets-chain

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Motor plus pedals= moped. Electric or otherwise.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Sean Hennessey /

If anyone has some rear hub motor/controller advice lmk. I got a junky tomos spront frame for 10 dollars, gonna ebike it this winter i think.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

for tomos, there are 16" rear hub motors available. think they're for "scooter" conversions.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

That is pretty cool, an electric Rokon! But the price is insane, I'd get an ONYX first. Really tempted, I qualify for a loan for one, but only ride about 4.5 months a year so hard to justify....but so cool and fast, not sure how or if I would register it, but at it's cost would fear having it impounded.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

> Stephen Keller Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> That is pretty cool, an electric Rokon! But the price is insane, I'd get

> an ONYX first. Really tempted, I qualify for a loan for one, but only

> ride about 4.5 months a year so hard to justify....but so cool and fast,

> not sure how or if I would register it, but at it's cost would fear

> having it impounded.

Agreed . i'd definitely want it 'legal' no matter which type . Impounds are not nice in any respect .

Onyx and UBCO are intentionally two different style bikes .

And , yeah , 7K is a bit for sure . For that kind of cash , I'd try my hand at building a better mouse trap . ;)

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I think I could register an ONYX as a moped in MN, prob would, just have to be careful to keep it out of fast mode, I hear they will see close to 60 mph....awesome...lol, with a plate and insurance the cops would prob let you be, as they are not up on moped law here, but if you kept it in 20 mph mode, it is a electric bicycle, no plate dl or insurance needed, but who is going to do that? Certainly not I! :)

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Weezer fans see this?

084242A8-48B6-4173-8B06-6A150212ADE4.jpeg

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

> 🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> There's alot of part crossover but due to how prevalent electric motors

> are nobody knows all of them yet

>

> Maybe these wjlm work?

> https://www.electricmotorsport.com/ev-parts/power-transmission/sprockets-chain

yea that's totally what I was picturing, but they don't seem to exist for the 15mm size axle. I've found some threaded adapters for bicycle sprockets, since it seems theres' some tricycles which use the 15mm keyed drive axles but nothing matching quite what I need.

Yea, it's been a learning experience for sure. Kinda came into it like aww you just get all the parts and put em together and realize there's like legos and duplos and they don't all fit together. and also everything from china is a lie.

like I got some rando 18650 that claims to be 4800mAh, which is pretty much entirely impossible given the size and power density, but outta curiousity I tested it. wanna guess actual capacity?

61.

SIXTY ONE. no typo.

and the tester I made works too, it shows the good Samsung cells I got listed at 3000 measuring all from 2800-3300. china "4800 mAh" cell? 61. it weighs nothing too which is a pretty good giveaway that the "30 gallon" capacity in a 20gallon tank doesn't have many gallons actually filled.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

David Fox and I have been working on an electric conversion for over a year!

Started with a minty 1978 Batavus Regency. Had no guilt in removing terrible Laura 48.

Initial goal was to keep everything look stock ... except for motor and absence of pipe. Getting right center drive motor was first hurdle ... fitting homemade 72v 18650 battery in tank was even tougher. (BTW, went with Sony Murato cells and solderless connectors).

We gaining momentum again ... thanks to a 1969 Wards Riverside tank. Stay tuned for final photos ... maybe by 2021!

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

Start:

2F3F5C2C-07B0-4A3B-AF7F-1EAE6BB90DB1.jpeg

Current:

69A76137-6034-477C-997E-9BCB0227D22C.jpeg

YES ... it will have pedals!

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

I’ve spent more on little electric motorcycles and a electric scooter in the last month then I have on moped in like 2 years. They are really fun and are definitely the future.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

So my Sondors Fold XS finally arrived. A good bit late but I have to say this thing is a hoot to ride. Get some exercise, cruise along and look good while doing it.

I have to say I'm wanting to go faster but that's a product of constantly riding 2-wheeled vehicles that go 2-3x the top speed of this bike. When I got to work one of my coworkers says I was cookin' so for a bike, it's fast.

Can't wait to take it off-road.

Worth mentioning Sondors is putting out a line called Mad Mods based on vintage mopeds. The bikes look very cool and are a direct rival of Super73, however, they are much less expensive for the high quality components and features they offer.

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

Oh man yeah

So for 18650 cells there is a physical limitation to the capacity of the cell (since 18650 is a size/form factor nothing else). You cannot exceed 3400mAh without safety concerns.

Panasonic makes the highest capacity cell at 3400mAh. Anything above that is a lie.

For electric hub motors the two important characteristics are:

Pole pairs

Wattage rating

If you know what the Kv is of the motor that's actually more important but that's getting technical.

Also if you get like an ASI controller or even bother to spend any money on a new controller, you can make it go faster :)

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

> 🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Oh man yeah

>

> So for 18650 cells there is a physical limitation to the capacity of the

> cell (since 18650 is a size/form factor nothing else). You cannot exceed

> 3400mAh without safety concerns.

>

> Panasonic makes the highest capacity cell at 3400mAh. Anything above

> that is a lie.

>

> For electric hub motors the two important characteristics are:

>

> Pole pairs

>

> Wattage rating

>

> If you know what the Kv is of the motor that's actually more important

> but that's getting technical.

>

> Also if you get like an ASI controller or even bother to spend any money

> on a new controller, you can make it go faster :)

Yea one of my roles at work is developing process tech for calcining the raw materials for batteries, like the actual cathode active material and like the best case best specs in terms of capacity per gram or per cc, if it was purely packed with active material 18650's couldn't possibly hit 4800. it's just wild. And you know this but man I really didn't expect it to be under 100.

But if we or other raw material suppliers make off spec or under performing material, like you make it wrong or batch it or cook it wrong whatever, you lose structure basically you lose capacity. the material wont survive as many charges, it'll hold less charge etc it gets sold super cheap cuz it's shit material. It's like if you had watered down swamp gas and couldn't salvage it so it gets sold for 20 cents a gallon. And that's what goes into those cheap cells, they also cut cost by just putting a lot less in, I mean the cheapiest weigh half of a decent battery cuz it's mostly empty... you really get what you pay for.

Also the 1st hub motot I got was advertised as 1kW and had a 15A fuse on a 32v battery... I also recently opened that hub and theres a 750w sticker in there lol. Just say 1kW and nobody will know and you can charge more money!

Anyway, I saw a dude on one of those folding sondors yesterday, it moved great. I had my 2wd hybrid moped with the above mentioned 750 front hub, and his was much quicker. (Well till I put on the gas! HYBRID woo)

Re: Anyone else with an electric bike?

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

So hub motor ratings are literally just that: a number that gets stamped on them.

Technically for a 1000w motor it means that if you put 1000w through the motor it will not increase the temperature of the motor beyond X amount. That's it.

Generally hub motors are rated for 150% of the voltage they are designed for (which is a factor of the windings of copper). Other than that it's just heat and eddy current field management.

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