Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

What's next, an article about the thousands of conventional cars that wouldn't start or had frozen door handles? Winter is hard on cars, and batteries especially.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

My car sits outside with a conventional battery and it will start at below 0 F temps any time.

If not, I can hook up a jumper cable and go with that. BECAUSE I have petrol.

Now let's JUMP-START a HUGE electric battery and then take off immediately.Hmmmmmm?

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

I had a battery warmer I installed in my 2010 jeep patriot. That plus the remote start, no problems!

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Right! Hafta keep batteries warm. Zero weather is rough on em. Always just hung a rough service trouble light by mine.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by this, a while ago at a company across the street from me a few all bought Nissan Leaf's, Leaves? After one winter they were all sold or traded in. Batteries are still evolving and doing quite well really, but they are not yet up to extreme climates.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Stephen Keller Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not sure why anyone is surprised by this, a while ago at a company

> across the street from me a few all bought Nissan Leaf's, Leaves? After

> one winter they were all sold or traded in. Batteries are still evolving

> and doing quite well really, but they are not yet up to extreme

> climates.

At least NASA isn't sharing their secrets...

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Good point, but I'm sure what is running their stuff is far too expensive to be feasable for all, at least for now.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Yes, I'm sure it is too, because it's usually one off stuff, and always top secret. If the technology was available to everyone, it would be cheaper, but China would steal our tech.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Andrew Squiggman /
DDC7265B-81F2-45C6-BDE4-4415281F65D5.png

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Electric cars have been around since before I was born. The quote is fun though.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Chöschi21 C.K. /

Electric cars have been around before the oldest still living Human was Born.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

They sucked back then too, but, back then it was impressive to go 5 miles without a horse and buggy, it was also thought you would be torn apart if you went faster than 30mph...electric cars are here, and only getting better, nothing to be done about it, but they except in limited use scenarios are still limited in practicality. They will continue to improve, and I will probably end up owning one someday. I think speed of charging is the key to making everyone want one. If I were to drive to another state or across Nebraska ever again I don't want to sit somewhere for an hour every 250 miles or so. This is a big country, with some VERY extreme weather to contend with, and a production car has to be able to deal with range and extreme weather to make people want it. Once they whip those hurdles an electric car makes sense, less moving parts, less to go wrong. I think IC engines will remain in heavy use vehicles, earth moving, emergency vehicles, plow trucks etc. Semi's too maybe hydrogen for them or lng.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

There is still ground to be covered to make a pure electric every bit as practical long distance as a gasoline or diesel engine for sure.

That said, a pure electric as-is right now will serve the majority in a daily driver scenario. A fully electric car is totally capable, with current reasonable technology, of transporting the vast majority of Americans to their job and regular errands every day. Most Americans just don't drive greater than 30 miles a day. I am confident someone here will claim different but I promise they're the exception to the rule.

GM did a ton of research on this very idea and it's what created the Chevy VOLT hybrid. An electric drive system capable of handling the average commute with a gasoline engine to cover any driving beyond that. My fiance bought a ford c-max on the same idea. She now buys 10 gallons of gas a month. I daily drive her old 4 cylinder '07 focus and buy that much every week.

Hybrid cars are the dvd/VHS combo player of cars. They're super sensible right now and if you like saving money you should consider it. Still, fully electric is the inevitable future.(edited)

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Stephen Keller Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> They sucked back then too, but, back then it was impressive to go 5

> miles without a horse and buggy, it was also thought you would be torn

> apart if you went faster than 30mph...electric cars are here, and only

> getting better, nothing to be done about it, but they except in limited

> use scenarios are still limited in practicality. They will continue to

> improve, and I will probably end up owning one someday. I think speed

> of charging is the key to making everyone want one. If I were to drive

> to another state or across Nebraska ever again I don't want to sit

> somewhere for an hour every 250 miles or so. This is a big country,

> with some VERY extreme weather to contend with, and a production car has

> to be able to deal with range and extreme weather to make people want

> it. Once they whip those hurdles an electric car makes sense, less

> moving parts, less to go wrong. I think IC engines will remain in heavy

> use vehicles, earth moving, emergency vehicles, plow trucks etc. Semi's

> too maybe hydrogen for them or lng.

I JUST NOW drove 300 miles home, Stephen. Yesterday I drove 230+ miles, and sat in traffic half the time on Rt.4 in jams on and off again.

SURE GLAD I wasn't driving a stinkin' electric pretender yesterday and today.LOL!

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

I hear you Don, but you have to accept that they are coming, but there are a LOT of issues to deal with first. I never even thought of being stuck in a traffic jam, my god people run their phones out of juice all the time, what happens when your car quits on a stop and go freeway? A worse traffic jam, that's what. I know you can run out of gas too, but for most people, a car is inconvenient enough, especially to the wallet, that they grudgingly pay attention to them, if for no other reason than to avoid costly repairs, tow charges etc. An electric will be even easier to take for granted. What would a tow truck do? You could not just put $10.00 worth of gas in and be on your way, car would need to charge an hr or so? People are not having that.

@ Blake, I LOVED the Volt, but they sure did not sell, I also hate the concept of a car payment, even with the luxury of a new modern vehicle that that buys you. I did not know the C-max worked the same way? Cool. I always envisioned an electric car with a hyper efficient diesel powering a big alternator to keep the battery at a safe level, but not tied into the final drive, or locomotive style, electric motor fed by low rpm highly efficient ic engine? Skip the battery altogether? Honda test marketed a civic that ran on natural gas, you got a fill port tapped into your house line, very efficient, but what about apartment dwellers, people who rent rooms,,,so many etc's that are very real to the vehicle buying public. The notion of what a "daily driver" is varies so much in this country....I go 4 miles round trip to work, electric would very work for me, UNLESS I woke up one day, said fuck it i'm leaving and going to New Mexico to live, then an electric would be useless. As would a full electric the last two weeks here in MN -28 two 3 days straight, this week -15 and about a foot of snow, I don't trust a battery to keep my windows clear and me warm in that. In America, a car is more than a tool, it is a "lifestyle expression of sorts" a very different market than the rest of the world...when electric cars can meet those demands, ic cars will become like mopeds, an interesting curiosity to those who appreciate "real" machinery. I also know if there is money to be made the tech WILL be developed and priced to be in reach of most and still turn a profit.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

We have the petroleum. Prices on fuel, NOT including electricity for cars, are good.

I have driven a LOT lately, and electric just ain't gonna cut it.

If you're a `short range' commuter, go for the EV. Just don't run low and cause traffic jams. Had enough of THAT yesterday.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

traffic jams don't drain yer battery dummy, you can sit in traffic all day and use like zero electricity. stop and go traffic also doesn't drain your battery as much as it burns gas. they are super duper good for that sort of thing.

250 miles of stop and go traffic = 500 miles of average gasoline consumption = 150-200 miles of electric consumption because of the way the 'average drive cycle' is computed.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

Dumb again Graham: `traffic jams don't drain yer battery dummy, you can sit in traffic all day'

The day I got caught was on 82 degrees, which is about 90 when surrounded by cars.

You gonna run your AC on nothing? You turn yer lights off in a jam? You let others push you 5-10 mph in a jam? LOL!

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

3-5 miles per hour on heat and 14 miles per hour on AC-

assuming your average ground speed is ~ 30 miles per hour or so (my average from milwaukee commute in really bad traffic) you're 250 miles of sitting in traffic would consume roughly 200 miles of EV range due to the fact that the range is calculated based on a mixed high speed drive cycle.

source:

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ev-traffic-congestion-range

but you don't really care about facts do you, you're just a nameless coward troll sitting there collecting government handouts and bitching at the world.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

This is interesting, what I picture though is people getting stuck because they left with 3 bars on my battery, "cuz t it only takes me 2 to get home" then there is a wreck and they are stuck, or it is super cold and they forget heat takes juice, just seems easier for people to ignore. People know you need gas, especially in winter, in MN you can be cited for running out of gas on the highway. I predict that in another 5 yrs that batteries will be of suitable strength to make even someone like me trust them, but I want to see the test results from the proving ground in Baudette MN... :)

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

I'd be happy to read a thread, especially a debatable one, without seeing the childish name calling. Dumb? Dummy? Coward? Really, guys, come on now. Y'all get offended way too damn easy.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> 3-5 miles per hour on heat and 14 miles per hour on AC-

>

> assuming your average ground speed is ~ 30 miles per hour or so (my

> average from milwaukee commute in really bad traffic) you're 250 miles

> of sitting in traffic would consume roughly 200 miles of EV range due to

> the fact that the range is calculated based on a mixed high speed drive

> cycle.

>

> source:

>

> https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ev-traffic-congestion-range

>

> but you don't really care about facts do you, you're just a nameless

> coward troll sitting there collecting government handouts and bitching

> at the world.

That's after Tesla triple-charged YOU for the KWH's …...LOL! Coward troll? LOL again.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Seth B Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I'd be happy to read a thread, especially a debatable one, without

> seeing the childish name calling. Dumb? Dummy? Coward? Really, guys,

> come on now. Y'all get offended way too damn easy.

Seth,anyone that uses those names(plural) dummy,nameless coward troll, etc. is not worth my getting offended at.

Like Ken R., I just laugh and retort a little.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

BTW,Graham? Are you trying to fill in for K-evil while he's away? LOL!

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Stephen Keller Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> This is interesting, what I picture though is people getting stuck

> because they left with 3 bars on my battery, "cuz t it only takes me 2

> to get home" then there is a wreck and they are stuck, or it is super

> cold and they forget heat takes juice

^This IS the whole point! People will be `stretchin it' and probs will occur. WHILE we were in that terrible jam down Rt.4 freeway, two times the Fire/rescue squad struggled to get by the mess. So THAT's another concern.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

I remember a while back there was a car battery that had a "reserve" of sorts, if you left the lights on and it died, you could flip a switch on the battery and it opened up a few more cells or something, said to be enough to start the car, maybe something like this will be incorporated into the main battery of an EV? Electric IS coming, just not as fast or as universally as many would hope. I still think a small ic engine on-board to keep the battery charged, supplemented by plug in charging of course, would go a long way in alleviating range anxiety. 10 gallons of fuel could last months...when battery dipped to where the engine would have to run, speed could be limited to say 40 mph, so you could get off the road and either plug in or just let it run and bring the battery up to an effective level. The cooling system of the engine could also provide emergency heat...idk. People far more educated that I have been working on this for yrs, so maybe my thought has flaws I can't visualize.

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Stephen Keller Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I remember a while back there was a car battery that had a "reserve" of

> sorts, if you left the lights on and it died, you could flip a switch on

> the battery and it opened up a few more cells or something, said to be

> enough to start the car, maybe something like this will be incorporated

> into the main battery of an EV? Electric IS coming, just not as fast or

> as universally as many would hope. I still think a small ic engine

> on-board to keep the battery charged, supplemented by plug in charging

> of course, would go a long way in alleviating range anxiety. 10 gallons

> of fuel could last months...when battery dipped to where the engine

> would have to run, speed could be limited to say 40 mph, so you could

> get off the road and either plug in or just let it run and bring the

> battery up to an effective level. The cooling system of the engine could

> also provide emergency heat...idk. People far more educated that I have

> been working on this for yrs, so maybe my thought has flaws I can't

> visualize.

I doubt electric will make it soon.... AND when Tesla and other greedmonsters get to raise the KWH rates,like they have, what will people do?

We know that most Attorneys General will not act for the common cause. Big business usually gets a pass and the little guy suffers.

Greed rules when you're cornered into a fuel outlet or source.(edited)

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

I aM ScarEd of ElECtriC CarS

Re: Electric Vehicle Batteries and cold weather.

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I aM ScarEd of ElECtriC CarS

Yes,you probably should be. EMF is still a concern,let alone cold weather and KWH cost.

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