Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Quote Jimmy: ` end of that note as there is no reasoning with insanity.'

And with that truism, I will not post again. RIP Perot.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>

> And with that truism, I will not post again.

Promise?

I guess there’s always hope.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Jimmy Cincinnati Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> You're worried about cleaning a room when the whole world needs to be

> cleansed of man. That means the population of man needs to be reduced

> significantly now.

>

> Hitler would be proud.

>

> At this point the only hope we have is to stop ALL births world wide

> now.

>

> Seriously just wow. Wait till someone is talking like that about your

> kids... or grand-kids... or nephews & nieces.

>

> When you put all that into perspective then abortion really is not an

> issue.

>

> Regardless of what is going on, abortion terminates a life. Ill end of

> that note as there is no reasoning with insanity.

Label it what you want. Hitler has nothing to do with any of this. The WHOLE planet needs to change for the future of ALL people including the earth. Race, religion, or location does not matter. THATS ALL PEOPLE WORLD WIDE. We either make a global change on our own or mother earth will do it for us. Abortion means nothing when there will be nowhere for anyone to live.

Wow is right. I dont have kids and never will. So what? Life goes on. Everyone on this planet putting themselves first instead of worrying about what the earth needs. Just wow!

Abortion indeed terminates life. We terminate each other everyday with wars. We terminate all creatures of the planet everyday for our own good.

And likewise on the insanity remark. Your ideas and beliefs are for yourself not for the future of man or the planet.(edited)

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Quote Jimmy: ` end of that note as there is no reasoning with insanity.'

>

> And with that truism, I will not post again. RIP Perot.

And you're one to talk Don.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Quote Jimmy: ` end of that note as there is no reasoning with insanity.'

>

> And with that truism, I will not post again. RIP Perot.

Insanity is not the root.

Being brainwashed is.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

you've decided that life begins at conception and from that viewpoint have attached all of the positive attributes and qualities of a healthy happy cognizant child to it with no regard to individual circumstances. From there you can only impose the ideology that choosing to not have a child after conception is equivalent to murdering an actual child. I disagree here, and again we cannot ever agree - your ideology doesn't allow you to consider any other view.

I firmly believe that the decision to no have a child is an important and difficult choice that needs to be left to the person or persons who would be impacted in the light of their own individual situation, and that this allows the best possible outcomes for everyone involved. I would add to this argument, but any detail I put will get called out in an individual quote to be rebutted so I'll try to just stick to the general point rather than get into details for you to stumble over.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Jimmy Cincinnati /

Pull over the bus! Will must have fallen off and now wants to rebuttal!

I would add to this argument, but any detail I put will get called out in an individual quote to be rebutted

You throw out accusations then opt for a cop-out. If you dont want the discussion than drop it. I didnt start the abortion debate anyway, but am more than happy to discuss it if thats what people really want.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

The point Will is trying to make, Jimmy, is that your morality is subjective based on a construct of dogma, not a universal truth demonstrable by the 5 senses and classical logic. When someone says 'life begins at conception' that is a statement that the predominant 'christian' religious establishment has established and reinforced, and not based on scientific fact- and really based on some pretty thin biblical evidence too. Technically eggs and semen are also alive so life begins in the womb of the grandmother of the fetus in question and taking that argument to the logical extreme, any woman who isn't constantly pregnant in the service of populating the earth with lil' christian babies, is aborting a living person every month.

The conversation I was hoping to have, had more to do with the original topic of Ross Perot, the influence of third parties, and how your lords and masters use various psychological/ sociological tricks to keep you voting for people who don't represent 99% of your views, but claim to agree with you on one single issue.

Personally, and it has nothing to do with the debate, i'm anti-abortion, in fact i think most pro-choice people are anti-abortion. It definitely gives me the heebie jeebies as a dad and generally philanthropic person to intentionally end the live of a potential lil' baby.

The point of the discussion that will and i are trying to have is to illustrate how certain people and elements in the political process in America manipulate people to vote a certain way, not a general discussion about whether abortion is right, wrong, illegal, immoral or whatever else you and don are on about.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Also:

thought question for the MAGA crowd

if a person attains legal personhood at conception

does a person who is concieved in america (and is therefore a full blown legal person) to illegal immigrant parents, who then give birth in another country, have the right to US citizenship when they come out? check out the 14th amendment to the constitution and let me know where ya stand on that one.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Can we ban Don Ohio and jimmy already?

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

^ this +1.

Can we start a petition?

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Jimmy Cincinnati /

When someone says 'life begins at conception' that is a statement that the predominant 'christian' religious establishment has established and reinforced,

I have not been arguing using the bible.

and not based on scientific fact- and really based on some pretty thin biblical evidence too.

I dont think science would agree with you. Infact, i doubt you can actually point to anytime beyond conception as to when life begins. An egg left alone will just be an egg, and semen left alone will just be semen. But put both together and under normal conditions it will grow into a person. Conception makes since, and Im not even using the bible to justify that. I think you need to establish when life begins in your world view.

The conversation I was hoping to have, had more to do with the original topic of Ross Perot, the influence of third parties,

I started this thread to discuss Ross Perot. Someone Ill admit to not knowing much about. Seems like everyone loves the man but somehow he wasnt elected. Im thinking it was just cool to say "I like Ross Perot"

thought question for the MAGA crowd

better find some MAGA people then. Im more republican that democrat but i think both parts have their garbage. The whole federal government is overgrown and out of control.

Can we ban Don Ohio and jimmy already?

So someone challenges your beliefs and because your so insecure you want to ban them. How very progressive of you. Honestly dude, if your that scared of what you believe its probably because you know its wrong. And Jay, you have always been a "Yes man," you must be proud of yourself.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

I missed this shitshow because i have never heard of ross parrot and don't care for his passing. But Christian Ohioans are fucking retards pretty much sums up this topic.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Jimmy Cincinnati Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Pull over the bus! Will must have fallen off and now wants to rebuttal!

>

> I would add to this argument, but any detail I put will get called out

> in an individual quote to be rebutted

>

> You throw out accusations then opt for a cop-out. If you dont want the

> discussion than drop it. I didnt start the abortion debate anyway, but

> am more than happy to discuss it if thats what people really want.

this is literally the EXACT point I was trying to make. my original argument was that you have made the religious choice to believe that life begins at conception and associated all of the emotional attributes of a happy full grown child to it with no regard to the individual circumstances. But that since you are so emotionally and faithfully devoted to it, that you're unwilling to consider anything else and that an argument isn't going to progress anywhere except further into emotional ideology. I'm down to try to discuss it still but I don't think we can get anywhere

but my "cop out" was that I didn't want to get into further detail because you'd just nitpick any details, picking out any one later minor point to quote and respond to. which is very predictably exactly what you did. Like you making my point is hardly a rebuttal to it.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

I wouldn't want to ban Jimmy. I appreciate these discussions and you're a sensible dude who I regularly disagree with. Don, he's just irrelevant. I wouldn't ban him for being contrary to my opinions but the unproductive generally prejudiced negativity does get annoying to have to ignore and likely drives away some genuine folks. I prefer keeping his opinions here in OT tho, and generally in repair etc he can at least sometimes be helpful - its just when the prolific shit posting creeps into genfor and craps on new folks that's getting toward banworthy.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

I don't really support banning folks anyway. but, this is a great community, and it's a group of friends generally, and sometimes you gotta break up with a member like, hey man, nobody likes you, you bring everyone down, your presence is not fun, we'd really prefer you just left.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

^ this........ and:

“When someone challenges your beliefs and makes you uncomfortable blah blah blah..”

nope. We don’t want to see you guys banned because you challenge our thought process or make us morally, emotionally, or just in general uncomfortable, nay! It’s beyond annoying that you and don Ohio fill almost every thread, that you post in, with the fumes of your own political agenda and religious propaganda shit storm. Just tone it down, please!! It’s one thing to occasionally reminded us how you feel, it’s another to constantly and consistently regurgitate biased opinionated nonsense not related to the initial topic of discussion..

Yes man, hell yea, you have called me that several times and I believe it’s because you just don’t know me, only the internet me, and neither have ever agreed with you. I don’t log in just to argue and preach my values to a bunch of mopeders..... you’re not going to change the world from your keyboard homie, you’re just going to continue to make piles of shit for everyone to wade through. Honestly, It’s way more fun to post positive vibes on the internet of mopeds! Try it sometime! To be fair I know most of the people on this website in real life, hope to party with a few more and really hope a couple of ya forget how to login.

Xoxoxoxoxo

TL;DR: This is a moped website people sometimes view with limited time hoping to just have a laugh or a decent read.. let’s work together to keep the politics and religion on the appropriate forums and out of the moped internet.(edited)

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

I respect your passion, just not your approach.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Jimmy Cincinnati /

this is literally the EXACT point I was trying to make. my original argument was that you have made the religious choice to believe that life begins at conception and associated all of the emotional attributes of a happy full grown child to it with no regard to the individual circumstances.

Where did i mention god or the bible? Honestly, its you guys that keep bringing it up. Someone can believe life starts at conception without biblical proof. That is the very point when the sperm meets the egg and its starts turning into a human. When left in normal conditions it turns into a human. Where did i mention gods word??? I challenge you to find a better point of when life actually begins... at what point in development does it achieve person hood?? Im not talking souls, im talking level of development.

but my "cop out" was that I didn't want to get into further detail because you'd just nitpick any details

So basically, anything i rebuttal with is nitpicking... that is called debating... which normally means someone does not agree with your stance so they provide a rebuttal. You basically want me to just stay silent, nod, and agree im guessing.

I appreciate these discussions and you're a sensible dude who I regularly disagree with.

Now let me step back and say thank you for that. Seriously thank you for bringing us back to civility. If you actually meet me in real like Im sure we would get along.

It’s beyond annoying that you and don Ohio fill almost every thread, that you post in, with the fumes of your own political agenda and religious propaganda shit storm.

Seriously research my post history. I make many posts that are not political or religious in nature. Normally im always just responding to people whom generally are very nasty towards me, or someone else, or the bible. I actually dont bring up the Christianity until someone starts bashing it. Seriously look through my history, you have me pegged wrong. And i call you a yes man because your just always jumping into a conversation saying "yes" after someone makes a hateful or discriminating comment towards me. Like...

Can we ban Don Ohio and jimmy already?

or...

I missed this shitshow because i have never heard of ross parrot and don't care for his passing. But Christian Ohioans are fucking retards pretty much sums up this topic.

Show me where i called someone in this thread a fucking retard or other slur. Worse thing i did was call you a yes man (yes i know you didnt call me that, Im just showing how people respond to me)... which is a far cry from calling you a fucking retard.

Honestly, It’s way more fun to post positive vibes on the internet of mopeds! Try it sometime!

So i encourage you to take the same advice. I actually like a healthy debate, it just typically doesnt happen on here. And you are never obligated to response or even read my threads. I actually like hearing a challenge to my arguments as i get to test out my beliefs. And again, look through my thread history and find a topic I started to generate controversy. I actually posted up the Ross Perot thing because he died (people always make RIP posts here) and i just dont know much about the man or what he stood for.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Life beginning at conception is a well defined Christian viewpoint. It could develop into a child, but hasn't. The ability to terminate that process before an actual cognizant child is involved I believe is an important and difficult choice that has the potential to greatly impact everyone involved and the freedom to make that choice is for the benefit of everyone involved, and that it is more morally right to promote building intentional happy families than forcing someone to have a child because they conceived. In almost every imaginable scenario that an abortion would be chosen. I would present birth, independent life as the point where life begins, but I am comfortable with the idea of viability- being the point at which a child could survive without the mother.

regarding the other point, I just wanted to keep focused on the main point and not get sidetracked. guess that failed.

I have taken time to go through some old threads to where they slip into controversy. it's usually don or kev, almost never jimmy

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Jimmy Cincinnati /

Life beginning at conception is a well defined Christian viewpoint.

True, and there are things i believe that atheists also believe in. I can still derive to that point without going at it from a Christian or Atheist point of view.

It could develop into a child, but hasn't.

So again you get back to concept as the first union of necessary things to create life. Without conception there will be no child. To me that is just the clear cut moment life has form, as given normal conditions it grows into a walking, talking human.

The ability to terminate that process before an actual cognizant child

So would you say that being a cognizant child is what dictates whether it is a life or not? If so why... what makes that more valuable than any earlier point in development? At what point is abortion no longer an option due to infringing on a child's life (abortion surely is not in the best interest of any child - poor or sick)?

Ill stop at that as i think clearly defining when life begins is the crux of this debate.

I have taken time to go through some old threads to where they slip into controversy. it's usually don or kev, almost never jimmy

Thank you. I really do try to never personally insult someone. Years back i would have but i am trying to be better.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

I'm trying to understand your point of view not just to refute it. As I understand it you believe life to begin at conception and consider that embryo as having all of the qualities and potential of a child brought into the world.

To explain my view, I believe that pregnancy gives an opportunity to evaluate and through abortion have the option to terminate a pregnancy before it becomes a child. That this act is heartbreakingly difficult I am sure but allows people the chance to have a child when they want, and are able to raise that child with due resources and attention and stable family, as opposed to the potential of being raised in an inescapable hardship and potential resentment. I believe that gives the best chances for the best person, for the happiest outcomes and optimal wellbeing of all involved. And that is why I believe it is morally right to allow mothers the freedom to make that choice if their circumstances dictate it is the best choice. I would prefer the pregnancy never occurred, or that everyone could be in a position to be able to happily and safely raise a child, but sometimes things arent stable or it's just not right, and I cannot possibly make that judgement for others, nor since I cannot impose on others a personal ideology dictating the beginning of life do I think it's fair to impose legal restrictions denying them the ability to make that choice from their own moral grounds for their own personal reasons.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

regardless of the topic, you can always count on don ohio to contribute his own brand of stupidity to it, thus dumbing down the OT.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Can we ban Don Ohio and jimmy already?

jimmy is OK in my book. granted, we agree on little in the realm of politics,religion, and a slew of other topics, but he generally speaks his truth without being a self-righeous asshole.

don ohio on the other hand is the epitome of a “self-righeous asshole.”

that said, i’m against banning him. it’s much more fun to counter-troll the fuck out of him, and make him look even more foolish than he looks on his own.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Jimmy Cincinnati /

I'm trying to understand your point of view not just to refute it.

Agreed, thats why it is very important for us to define where life begins. Which again i would point at conception as being the only consistent point in development to define... as it was the start of the process so to speak. Anything after that and your defining person-hood based on development of the baby... which i would also ask why something such as a heart-beat makes you human.

To explain my view, I believe that pregnancy gives an opportunity to evaluate and through abortion have the option to terminate a pregnancy before it becomes a child.

My main issue with this stance is regardless of why women want to make those choices (convenience, rape, etc) if we believe that is a real child in her womb than by aborting it is murder (I would excuse abortion when there are health risks to the mother). I want children & mothers to have a good easy life, but deciding to terminate a life because life will be hard is not a moral good choice. I was a 3rd unexpected child to a poor family. Ive seen hard times in my life but im still glad i got the chance to live.

I guess i dont mean to sound like a broken record here but when and why does it become a person? I take no issue with someone getting rid of a clump of cells if it could be proven to not be a baby, but again i think it needs to be defined.

Ironically going to the religious points, this article shows domination all over the board with where life begins (this was a quick google search). I truly feel that conception is most consistent and logical point to go to... and i think it can be logical concluded using a worldly view point.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/04/when-does-life-begin-outside-the-

I was going to type more but its getting late. Hopefully the above made some sense, if not ill try to clarify better later.

jimmy is OK in my book. granted, we agree on little in the realm of politics,religion, and a slew of other topics, but he generally speaks his truth without being a self-righeous asshole.

I actually really do appreciate you saying that.

that said, i’m against banning him.

i dont like everything that is posted but i agree, banning is wrong.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Death is medically defined when the heart stops for a set period of time, biologically defined when the brain dies. Prior to 5-6 weeks of gestation a fetus has neither a heart or a brain. The neural tube is just closing at this point, and inside that neural tube the spine, and eventually, brain will form. .... .. if it can’t die medically or biologically- meets none of the criteria defined for life- how could it be “alive” or defined as a child prior to 5 weeks? Life does not begin at contraception.

My 2 cents.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

/end thread.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

Jimmy Cincinnati /

/end thread.

I havent been on in a few days so i figured i would let it die. But if you wish i will reply.

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Don Ohio Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > And with that truism, I will not post again.

>

> Promise?

>

> I guess there’s always hope.

Good one Blaine! LOL!

Re: Ross Perot dead at 89

> Jimmy Cincinnati Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> /end thread.

>

> I havent been on in a few days so i figured i would let it die. But if

> you wish i will reply.

Yes with something intelligent for a change.

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