Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Worth noting that many "rare earth metals", especially ones used in solar panels and wind turbines aren't particularly "rare" (they were rare when they were first discovered)- neodymium is close to copper and nickel in abundance. It's absolutely true that mining in general is an extremely destructive process, but extraction is necessary for fossil fuels as well (not to mention transport/transportation infrastructure of the fuels themselves). And these materials are also utilized in nearly every electronic product on the market from iphones, drill drivers and recharable batteries to missiles . Our primary problem is over-consumption - resource management, disposal and environmental impact simply have no tangible inherent value to the global capitalist economy that measures its success in terms of growth (and shareholders pockets). If we could fix the inputs to the system we could more intelligently manage what we have on earth.

Also re space- if things keep going as they are only the very wealthy are likely to escape this planet before the climate puts a huge percentage of the human population in crisis. Think of it as a billionaire rapture and not as an escape route.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

The REAL Luddites are those who want to return to the days of manual labor. They'll have you using a washboard(any of you millennial boys and girls know what that WAS?).

Forget air conditioning, they have a foot-powered fan. LOL! You're the Luddites!

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

> Overpriced Parts Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> We are parasites to the earth like fleas on a dog,

very true- humans are a cancer.

I do think we have a moral responsibility to try and mitigate the damage we do.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

This is of great interest!

a few FACTS so we can try to start there because this plan is actually significantly more thought out than "California is funny and I don't understand it but I am scared of change and of California therefore it must be bad and I must be smarter than then"

.

Natural gas is definitely the cleanest fossil fuel. But that has very little to do with replacing coal, the real motivation is and always will be - cost. natural gas is cheap, entirely because of fracking. (to be honest I think cheap natural gas has more to do with the return of manufacturing, low unemployment and economic gains that nay Obama or trump era policies, but let's not sidetrack too far) The only way to circumvent cost being the #1 driver for any action is regulation & policy, which either adds a tax (generating public revenue while also providing cost incentive to benefit the general population and the environment) or all out bans use of whatever.

So natural gas - I'll dip over here = Fracking is not inherently bad, not if don't properly. problem is it's rarely done properly, because few regulations enforce that it is, and in many places it causes significant issues like earthquakes. Still natural gas can provide chemically much more energy per CO2 emissions (unfortunately crappy drilling can release a lot of natural gas and leaks are also fairly common leading to CH4 emissions that are even more potent greenhouse gasses than CO2)

That said, natural gas has a place in transitioning to a lower CO2 global economy.

The biggest point here is that removing natural gas use in homes and businesses and replacing with electric heat EVEN IF THAT ELECTRICTY IS GENERATED BY NATURAL GAS offers significant improvements. Natural gas combustion at one source can easily be coupled with carbon capture technologies which work at large scale single sources, but would be impossible in a distributed system. Alternately It can also be used with a pyrolysis approach which breaks down CH4 into H2 and solid C, the H2 can be easily distributed pretty much the same way as natural gas and used similarly with NO net emissions but steam, meanwhile the carbon can be used for all sorts of things from tires to building materials to soil modifiers etc etc.

So no, Natural gas generated power does not make this a useless idea

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

wow, this really clearly indicates what an irrelevant genuinely active idiot don ohio is. like you are actively ignoring a series of well reasoned thought and logic to say literally nothing of any value.

Anyway I'm gonna try to understand why, and here's what I see. You are scared to death of change or anything that threatens you, and you feel threatened that someone might take away your natural gas and force you to use electricity in your home and vehicles. Despite this being a complete nonissue & you will never actually suffer from this luxury, you're still scared of it. bolstered by a very biased news intake that reminds you to be scared of it to ensure your allegiance to them, while dismissing factual well reasoned logic as "fake news" to build a safe little wall around your fragile ego.

So to reassure yourself you're right you come on here to post political topics so that those persons you already have decided are universally wrong, will tell you you are wrong, and through a twisted bias reaffirm your own flawed conclusions.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

-the fuck are you even talkin' about?

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The REAL Luddites are those who want to return to the days of manual

> labor. They'll have you using a washboard(any of you millennial boys and

> girls know what that WAS?).

>

> Forget air conditioning, they have a foot-powered fan. LOL! You're the

> e Luddites!

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Luddites! Go back to horse and buggy. No more elevators! Take those stairs,people.

Of course,China and India are still polluting with serious offenses.

You greenies are a big joke. Study up!

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Dirty30 Dillon /

If you think the Bible provides scientific backing for perpetual life on earth, then you are a luddite.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Jimmy Cincinnati /

The only way to circumvent cost being the #1 driver for any action is regulation & policy, which either adds a tax (generating public revenue while also providing cost incentive to benefit the general population and the environment) or all out bans use of whatever.

Can we regulate without so much red tape? Reducing fossil fuel usage (regardless of reason) certainty seems key to a countries long term health. It just seems that every time we invite regulation into some sector that it gets an overkill of regulation. Which will drive up prices and make it harder for the average american to heat their home. You know there is some greedy rich guys praying for regulation so they can basically drive out any competition and charge whatever they want for their supply as they have "buddies" passing regulation.

Thats my rant for the day.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

yea the corruption, or corporate interests, is brutal. But I think there's a pretty good consumer interest and investor interest in not wrecking the planet, I think the tax approach works well, tax CO2 and it creates the cost driver to promote greener technology. But then you have a lotta bureaucracy because of corporate interests lobbying to get exemptions and loopholes.

Still I support places like berkely that have both the money and the conscience to support drastic measures setting a high bar that doesn't need to be met, but it does say, hey this is important, we need to move this direction quickly

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Overpriced Parts /

> ..... poop Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Don and Ken are both friendless, stubborn luddites. You could inject

> entire theories and papers on molten salt offshore reactors into their

> shriveled, frightened brains and they'll both "404" into oblivion.

>

>

> "CALIFERNIALIEBRULSAREEVILBABYEATINGDEMONCRATSAOCSATANWORSHIPPERS!!1!"

>

>

>

> This is MAGA country!!!

Well since you started it lets see how much your misinformed !

Don retired from a nuclear facility so he forgot more than you’ll ever know about anything nuclear, he was on this MA site when your dog was eating your homework, he did the lake Erie challenge which was going around Lake Erie through, Canada, ny, pa and oh on a newly kitted bike that didn’t seize,

He knows about Mopeds then you’ll ever know, I respect him for what he did in his accomplishments but that’s him not me!

I’m not him in looks or many believes, I took classes on nuclear energy and protested the building of the two local nuclear power plants, near me (Davis Bessie and perry ) which they built anyway though they kept us local union members working I thought it was ridiculous so many cost overruns so many problems our union members were working seven days a week making bucket loads loads of money!

Now after losing more money than they ever made not to mention accidents including radiation release and the pollution of millions of acres of land to mine, produce, refine into fuel rods not to mention what are they going to do with the storage of so many spent fuel rods just sitting in ponds on site,

Now they want taxpayers dollars to stop the closing of them (Davis Bessie right now and perry plant in 2021),

I had to take mandatory nuclear medicine certifications due to my rehab work in hospitals so I know half life of almost every isotope/nuclear stuff than you know,

The molten salt reactors (unless you are talking ones for for oil) are 100 times worse than the steam type we use now and both are such old technologies it isn’t funny!

Nuclear fission is only good for making bombs and the trigger of hydrogen bombs , All kill people through its mining, production, accidents, handling , storage,

On a a nuclear power plant you’re sitting on a controlled bomb,

I hate nuclear power you’ll never change my feelings about it for what energy it makes it uses more resources and makes more the pollution any fuel in history if you take in the half life of most isotopes, because they keep killing and killing for years,

Oh by the way Fujiyama 4 reactors are still contaminating the ocean because I have a friend that lives near there, thousands of square kilometers are still unlivable,

God people are so dumb when it comes to nuclear.

The only thing nuclear it is good for is making a compact power plant to power ships for long periods of time

So you know I didn't vote for Donald Trump, mostly to union affiliation listed as a Democrat though I’m neither right nor left and would vote for any candidate locally or nationally that is for labor ,

Trump helped bankrupt a company I worked for back in the day for nonpayment for A few million dollars of work that they performed in New Jersey causing me to lose my last 3 day check back in the day so actually Trump owes me $550 so no love lost for him but I don’t have Trump to rangement syndrome like all you people who think with feelings do,

I think with knowledge, experiences of every president down to Kennedy and I think with common sense as well as respect any president who is in charge including Obama who was an ass kisser to many terrorist by paying ransom’s !

I Never talked about California people being evil, I just just said California and other western states are overpopulated for the amount of water and resources that they have,

I mean just look at Las Vegas Nevada right in the middle of the desert just taking energy off the grid, it can be seen in space same with palm springs take a desert and suck water and resources from other states so you could live there!

I’m part of a motorbike community out here and for 40 some years, both my brothers are Harley Davison riders and there are several Harley bikers on my street, know many in riding clubs I can call in a heartbeat for help, and I would have a small crowd here in no times, have friends every state and Canada too,

I know people in Europe (though I’m not gonna go there anytime soon ) I’m not a bad person, if you meet me in person and even though did more (physical stuff) by age 19 then you probably will in your entire life I except everyone, Gay LGBTQ, any race, any religion that doesn’t harm or kill LGBTQ people or women!

Ya Just keep ya the dumb phone to your face and keep posting bias bull crap about me and you’ll never know!(edited)

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

How long did it take you type that, ken?

Be honest

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Overpriced Parts /

> jayson sumpter Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> How long did it take you type that, ken?

>

> Be honest

I started this about 4 o’clock in the morning on my I phone 4 and I finally fell asleep due to the extreme heat (I don’t have central air because I’m not a hypocrite when it comes to energy usage) I couldn’t believe it was still there on screen this evening when I checked my 10 year old phone, because I’m not in a phone in face person like all these young people are and because Moped army sometimes just spins and spins because I don’t have the best Internet and it’s not the greatest site loading at certain times of the day with my old devices,

It only took about 25 min and and about 25 minutes today!

Soon I’ll be back to work and you won’t hear one post for me except to answer somebody who has a true Moped not a Chinese scooter question on the repair form or maybe something I have to sell even though I’m keeping most of that was going to sell due to the fact that most the things I sold are already reposted for sell by greedy sellers for three times what I sold them for,

I will never give information or help to any people I sold parts and bikes for that are flipping them! including this greedy seller! https://www.mopedarmy.com/riders/electricave/

Why don’t he and others just get a real job and stop the high price rip off scene this in my state and others for Moped parts so we could get back to normal pricing?

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

i didnt read it, what did he say?

> jayson sumpter Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> How long did it take you type that, ken?

>

> Be honest

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Andrew Squiggman /

> ..... poop Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> i didnt read it, what did he say?

>

> > jayson sumpter Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > How long did it take you type that, ken?

>

> >

>

> > Be honest

Quick summary.

Get off my lawn!

Don is smart. He worked with concrete at a nuke plant.

I save electricity and don’t run a/c, because it costs money.

I brag about my iPhone 4 because , well, see above.

I have dial up modem, because, see above.

I am going back to work soon, because I am gonna have to buy a new iPhone 5. The 4 is almost dead. Because, see above.

I’m so angry that I sold a moped part, and made some money, and then the buyer sold the part and made some money. Why don’t I ever have money? Im so angry I changed my screen name to overpriced parts. That will show him. It obviously worked for puchNcosmo still stolen.(edited)

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Thank you for the summary, Andrew.

I didnt bother unpacking that rant

> Andrew Squiggman Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > ..... poop Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > i didnt read it, what did he say?

>

> >

>

> > > jayson sumpter Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > How long did it take you type that, ken?

>

> >

>

> > >

>

> >

>

> > > Be honest

>

> Quick summary.

>

> Get off my lawn!

>

> Don is smart. He worked with concrete at a nuke plant.

>

> I save electricity and don’t run a/c, because it costs money.

>

> I brag about my iPhone 4 because , well, see above.

>

> I have dial up modem, because, see above.

>

> I am going back to work soon, because I am gonna have to buy a new

> iPhone 5. The 4 is almost dead. Because, see above.

>

> I’m so angry that I sold a moped part, and made some money, and then the

> buyer sold the part and made some money. Why don’t I ever have money?

> Im so angry I changed my screen name to overpriced parts. That will

> show him. It obviously worked for puchNcosmo still stolen.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Jimmy Cincinnati /

yea the corruption, or corporate interests, is brutal. But I think there's a pretty good consumer interest and investor interest in not wrecking the planet, I think the tax approach works well, tax CO2 and it creates the cost driver to promote greener technology. But then you have a lotta bureaucracy because of corporate interests lobbying to get exemptions and loopholes.

I dont think the tax approach will do much good for the very reasons you listed. Exemptions & loopholes will ensure the rich will profit while the rest of us suffer. Plus, if something truly ground breaking comes around it likely will get bought out and shelved by the big corporations it threatens. We should all have electric or 80mpg cars by now but that would never fly with big oil.

Still I support places like berkely that have both the money and the conscience to support drastic measures setting a high bar that doesn't need to be met, but it does say, hey this is important, we need to move this direction quickly

I agree. Decisions like this are best left to state & local decisions. I have more faith in them actually achieving their goals than if the federal government tried to blanketly force every state to comply. This goes back to the "clean your room" idea. They lead the trend on this and I think many will follow.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

I agree that a tax wont work if we let it get corrupted, but not all companies are bad, I think a lot of people actually recognize the need to address environmental issues, but simply can't afford to because if you're the only one doing it, out of goodness, then you're not making money, competitors can undercut you, and investors will flee for the higher earners. So I think a lot would actually support a CO2 tax system that allows them to be competitive within a new set of rules. Meanwhile the consumer interest is also (and with good cause) shifting to support greener technology, even if it costs a little more, tax pushes it. I'm speaking from a little personal experience and a broader involvement, but I work for a big company and understand those motivations, and in that role I wind up attending a lot of seminars and reading a lot at the academic/industry level on specifically CO2 emissions topics. universally it's #1 you have to appease investors and you have to do that by showing profitability first, but if the rules change and you're the ones best prepared to be profitable then you win.

I guess what I mean is, there are ways I think this works with a tax. certainly there will be companies trying to lobby a dishonest easy path for themselves, but it also leaves room for innovation to give new technology the leg up. And Ithink there are a lot of companies waiting to pursue new technologies once they become profitable - in the expectation of taxes or regulation

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

WillD: ` So I think a lot would actually support a CO2 tax system that allows them to be competitive within a new set of rules. Meanwhile the consumer interest is also (and with good cause) shifting to support greener technology, even if it costs a little more, tax pushes it. '

Liberals never met a tax they didn't like.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Jimmy Cincinnati /

Liberals never met a tax they didn't like.

Ill admit im leary of taxation and government control over natural gas but considering we arent really making anymore fossil fuels (i guess we kind of are, for millions of years down the road) it seems paramount to our countries survival to lessen our dependency on it. Beyond global warming (regardless of our stance on it), so much of our energy is derived from fossil fuels and we need to figure out new sources of renewable energy. It would be nice for us to take measures to prevent a full blow crisis in the future. Im just not sure how to effectively regulate it without allowing the coch-roaches to sneak in and screw up the system.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Jimmy, give those `cockroaches' more money and you know they'll waste it on stupid global warming fears.

Do you realize how terrified of future life the Millenials and later ones are? They've been victimized by their teachers,their professors, and the fake news.

They haven't had a chance.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Ok I'll reword. I support creating economic incentives to promote cleaner technology. Picture this. 2 cement plants. One uses natural gas to fire the cement, it costs them $2/ton and emits 0.15 tons CO2. the other uses old tires for heat, it costs them $1.80/ton and emits 0.5 tons CO2. a tax of 0.50c per ton of emissions raises the cost of the clean tech by like 5 cents, and the shitty one by almost 25 cents, so now theyre cost competitive, meanwhile the average cost is negligibly much higher to pass on to the consumer, and you've effectively phased out the dirtier process. And I think there are actually a lot of companies operating on the dirtier plan knowing that they'd get undercut by someone going the crappy route if they went with the better cleaner tech. It would make things easier to run on natural gas, morally more sound, better public reception, but without the ncentive they cant sell stuff competitively cheaply.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen. If yer worried about CO2, plant more green plants and quit cutting down forests.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen. If yer worried about CO2, plant more

> green plants and quit cutting down forests.

i actually laughed out loud.

i really do love you, don

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

plants also don't do a perfect job sequestering the CO2 , they eventually release much of it as they rot. but yes, plant more trees, cut down fewer trees. Unfortunately that's not one we have a lot of direct control over, but we can impact the demand for cutting down forests - opt out of printed media. shop locally and avoid shipping, reuse boxes.

or in general waste less. buy used things. buy reusable not disposable. ride a bike. don't have kids.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Overpriced Parts /

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> plants also don't do a perfect job sequestering the CO2 , they

> eventually release much of it as they rot. but yes, plant more trees,

> cut down fewer trees. Unfortunately that's not one we have a lot of

> direct control over, but we can impact the demand for cutting down

> forests - opt out of printed media. shop locally and avoid shipping,

> reuse boxes.

>

> or in general waste less. buy used things. buy reusable not disposable.

> ride a bike. don't have kids.

Well that don’t have kids thing didn’t work real well in China when they had the one child per family law, now there’s a shortage of workers and most people wanted to have a boy or keep only a boy they would abort it if it was a girl so now there is a shortage of women like two guys to one girl!

You need to have 2.5 children per family to keep your species going !

Back in the day (mid 70s) when they initiated coed gym in my high school it was wonderful, there was seven guys to 14 girls in my gym class and though I wasn’t the biggest I was the pretty much the strongest and the most athletic (could climb a rope to the ceiling with just my bare hands not even using my feet) and I used to work out by picking up the girls and holding them over my head, Man those were good times!

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> plants also don't do a perfect job sequestering the CO2 , they

> eventually release much of it as they rot. but yes, plant more trees,

> cut down fewer trees. Unfortunately that's not one we have a lot of

> direct control over, but we can impact the demand for cutting down

> forests - opt out of printed media. shop locally and avoid shipping,

> reuse boxes.

>

> or in general waste less. buy used things. buy reusable not disposable.

> ride a bike. don't have kids.

^ I agree and do all of those things.

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

I'm not saying you need to not have kids and certainly not suggesting the government mandate a limit. I have a daughter, she'll probably be my only. that's OK, kids are and should be apersonal choice. But regarding environmental impact, not having kids is probably the biggest impact choice that you can make.

I don't quite understand what that has to do with your unrelated nostalgia and bragging. Climbing is fun though, I always enjoyed the rope and pegboard in gym class. And I'm glad highschool was good to you, alotta folks hada pretty hard time with highschool, but I also had a good time, still do! keep the good times rollin'! (by ensuring we don't destroy the planet for future genetations...)

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

Jimmy Cincinnati /

But regarding environmental impact, not having kids is probably the biggest impact choice that you can make.

Theres proof guys, Will is coming for your kids!

Re: Not shocking for this city..... Banned natural gas....LOL!

noted child hater Will D threatens your kids

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