Discuss?

Brad William /

sdfsdfs

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Re: Discuss?

Brad William /

Leaving aside such dodges as "wage stickiness", what is the root of this? How is it possible, conscionable, that employees don't share the success of the company work for? My only explanation is that despite all the "we're all in this together" dog and pony show we all have to sit through at our workplaces, we're really nothing more than an expense. Heating, cooling, transportation, snow removal, landscaping, etc. I'm fine with that to tell the truth. For the "subsidiary" employees of a large firm, the outside contractors, the HVAC guys, the plumbers, the truckers, the landscapers, etc, this is understood. They don't have to sit through the same silly meetings, the pep talks, the pizza Fridays with balloons, and the droning exhortations of how wonderful and valuable and real corporate family members we are.

I'm not really intelligent enough to understand the economics of this. I'm not even advocating for a remedy to the chart above. But I am aware enough to be insulted a bit by the pretenses of being part of any corporate, large or small, "family". We all get this crap at work. It's silly. It's insulting. Can't we just be more honest with one another before we can get to any real meaningful conversations about this stuff?

Ok. Anyone else. Rant on!

Re: Discuss?

Brad William /

...and the "real output" line on that chart pretty closely reflects shareholder compensation through that time period.

Shareholders compensation outpacing the wage growth of a company's actual employees?

Re: Discuss?

how are they generating that statistic?

if you own a lawn mowing business and have 2 guys working for you with push mowers and they can mow 5 yards an hour

and you go out and buy 2 brand new exmark ZTR's for 10k each and they now can mow 10 yards an hour, but you invested 20,k that has to get paid back somehow.

does that mean you would double their pay? or would you pay off the equipment and keep the profit for yourself?

i'm not someone who just runs around advocating wide open capitalism but that is how the economy works, automation and technology has blown the doors off worker productivity. i can sit at a CAD workstation and design and do drawings in a week that would have taken 4 guys to do back in the 50's. They go out to the shop and a dude with a CNC laser burns them out in 15 minutes that would have been hand cut on a saw and drilled/machined by hand 50 years ago taking 10 times as long.

i'm not a big fan of dimensionless nonsense graphs posted with no context but the last 50 years has seen a huge shift and i don't doubt the concept of that graph is valid.

Re: Discuss?

Brad William /

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2019/08/19/nearly-200-ceos-say-shareholder-profit-isnt-everything/#2ee3475cd410

This isn't absolutely market driven. Willful, conscientious, actions can be made. And nothing is absolutely market driven. That's as lame as asserting that I steal because it is in my nature. Nature's "invisible hand" that guides my actions. We're better than that.(edited)

Re: Discuss?

Hey graham remember the industrial revolution? Yea automation already happened a long time ago

Back then they took complete advantage of the workers too. That is until unions became the norm in the manual labor world. Office and warehouse workers are starting to get there, but these multi national companies like amazon, google, Walmart, etc are doing everything they can to keep making money while taking advantage of the workers who cant afford to lose their jobs. Union busting should be a federal crime.

Re: Discuss?

True this I worked for Target many moons ago, the surest way to get fired was to mention the "u" word. Shitty shitty job.

Re: Discuss?

Oh retail and customer service workers get it the worst if you ask me. To think that a ceo who does basically nothing can get 178 million a year, which is about $5.50 every second they’re alive. Meanwhile people have to work an hour just to pay for the gas to get to and from their job...

Re: Discuss?

I hear you...it is criminal, they do what they can to keep you below 40 hrs so as to not have to pay benne's, even though the job was advertised as ft. Assholes. I worked there a year and a half, shocked I kept my apt, but I had no car, took the bus or walked, or biked, still did not eat much. :( Dicks, they brag about how much they give back to the community, how about paying the community that works in your stores? You can't live on $13.00 an hr and have a car etc...even then it was day to day....I'm cheap though so I made it, but like everyone there the second something better came along, I left that day no notice, no nothing, f-them. No respect for me? Fuck you too. I shop at local stores only now, it costs more, but I can afford it as I work a better job, and cheap or not I will never give Target another cent. Corporate America is digging it's own grave.

Re: Discuss?

What’s worse is they pay their employees so little that full time employees are still on welfare. It’s so crazy that people continue to act like everything is fine when clearly the u.s. economic system is complete dumpster fire.

Re: Discuss?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Well technically you're trading your time for small pieces of paper whereas I would prefer working for drugs or sex more practical I mean seriously if you even try to bring up history and tell them that the US steel industry used 2 higher pinkerton's to break up the Striking Irish they basically came in with shotguns and had a massacre and you know what there ain't a single sign in town about it it got swept under the rug

Re: Discuss?

Best practice is to be selfish if you are going to play in the greed game. Companies are no longer loyal to employees like they were back a number of decades, even huge 'career for life' unionized corporations will suddenly have a mass layoff and the executive will put on the 'so sad' act (but not be shy to collect $$$$$$$ bonuses for the 'money saved' when cutting or displacing jobs). Sadly large medium and smaller employers seem to feel it is fair that they can now play that game.

I have a plan B and C, which I keep up to date so that if one day I am fed up or show up to a locked door I can just move on. It is a source of monetary income, not my life, I have changed employers before and the world has not ended. At the moment there is more jobs than wiling workers in the area I live in, so that permitted me some leverage to ask and receive some more money on my paycheque. The sole advantage that my current employer has is that it is only 7 km from my farm, not a huge problem if I had to go further distance if anything should happen to this gig.

Also I do a lot of barter, swap, trade so I do not have to rely solely on my income and savings to live day to day. I lived like a pauper so that I could get to the point where everything I own I actually own, no loans, no rent, no mortgage, no debt. All I owe is the next utility bill. I do not live like royalty, but I have everything I need and a number of wants taken care of as well.

Re: Discuss?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

When the rich have 500% more than the poor historically that's when revolutions happen

Re: Discuss?

> Rebel Moby Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Best practice is to be selfish if you are going to play in the greed

> game. Companies are no longer loyal to employees like they were back a

> number of decades, even huge 'career for life' unionized corporations

> will suddenly have a mass layoff and the executive will put on the 'so

> sad' act (but not be shy to collect $$$$$$$ bonuses for the 'money

> saved' when cutting or displacing jobs). Sadly large medium and smaller

> employers seem to feel it is fair that they can now play that game.

>

> I have a plan B and C, which I keep up to date so that if one day I am

> fed up or show up to a locked door I can just move on. It is a source

> of monetary income, not my life, I have changed employers before and the

> world has not ended. At the moment there is more jobs than wiling

> workers in the area I live in, so that permitted me some leverage to ask

> and receive some more money on my paycheque. The sole advantage that my

> current employer has is that it is only 7 km from my farm, not a huge

> problem if I had to go further distance if anything should happen to

> this gig.

>

> Also I do a lot of barter, swap, trade so I do not have to rely solely

> on my income and savings to live day to day. I lived like a pauper so

> that I could get to the point where everything I own I actually own, no

> loans, no rent, no mortgage, no debt. All I owe is the next utility

> bill. I do not live like royalty, but I have everything I need and a

> number of wants taken care of as well.

^ I abide this same philosophy, it is not "popular" in today's materialistic society, but I never need fear the repo man, or work my ass off to pay for an "image".

Re: Discuss?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

." You you work long and hard and pay your taxes so you have the privilege to stare at me..'

--- quote from disheveled homeless guy at a McDonald's at the manager that was giving him a hassle I think he was on K2

Re: Discuss?

what are the units, and what makes it "real"?

I'd tend to expect automation to be a big part of it too.

I don't meant ot discredit it, or be one of those folks that nitpicks the details to discredit the entire argument, I just mean there are no details. and I want to understand the phenomena presented and not just the implications it makes.

tbh I think the exploitation of low wage workers is crazy and theers a clear and undeniable trend toward progressively screwing employees for the benefit of the shareholders and execs. at this point it's inexorably tied into the system, to the point that if you cut profitability to improve workers rights or environmental sustainability or anything that doesn't directly translate to more shareholder $$$, they flee to the guy who is making more money and your company is done. It's systemic, and it can only get worse. I think theres some room for market factors to move consumer demands and maybe generate some more money by caring about those things but if it's not more profitable to pay your employees more, nobody will do it, because they can't. Really the only way to ensure fairness is workers advocating together for rights (unionize) which only works if everyone is in it, or legislation. or all out civil overthrow.

Re: Discuss?

Amen brother

Re: Discuss?

x2

Re: Discuss?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

There are systemic flaws that are inherent in any system for instance once you reach this big bureaucratic level there is no independent thought I mean as a person you know what's right and wrong but when you reach this level of Barack Chrissy it gets thrown all out the window did that type O is so good I am just going to leave it it would have been better if it said Christy

But what's really going on is that it puts blinders on your own Humanity I mean what's happening to me is a classic example of Barack your C gone out of control I mean I went out of my way to do my civic duty and act as a first responder and save somebody's life in doing so I injured myself and it cost $4,000 in medical bills I lost a $2,000 bike the insurance company after responding to a complaint 2 years later refunded me the full value price of the policy which was to Grand and they told me it was for pain and suffering and it was not a settlement because when I do get a settlement I could pay them off and everything's hunky-dory like if Mazda response to my complaint and I win my suit I just paid them the two grand and I never settled but I am non-responsive to normal pain management as a result I was one of the first people with a medical marijuana license in Pennsylvania I had it before the dispensaries opened it was medically necessary after a bypass regular opioids do nothing well it would take 60 of them to equal 1 and I can get an effect where it last four minutes if it goes straight to my brain anyways I took the two grand and I spent it on pain management because they told me the settlement was for pain and suffering I have all the receipts and after Medicare got wind that I received the check they wanted all $2,000 of it they stated that my moped insurance paid off and they wanted all their medical bills that they've paid back and they're going to attach my disability for the two grand I've been going through my congressman I've talked to my representative about this I informed them that it's all hinging on this complaint I've requested the status of the complaint and I'm still waiting they told me 10 business days it's been 11 but you know I explained everything three times when I disputed it and I even told him if you attach my wages then I am going to go straight to a news agency and shout it from the highest freaking yardarm that do not do any kind of heroic deed or anything else don't do your civic duty just watch people die because if you go to help it's all on you you get hurt you have to pay for it so if there's ever a chance that you're going to get hurt doing a good deed don't ever do it

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