Re: My Helmet is my mask

Again i like the drunk driving analogy. Its an enhanced risk you are choosing to inflict on others for your convenience. I cant be that much of a selfish dick especially when the cost of a ride home is basically free...

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Your two reasons though.

1, that’s exactly why they want you to wear one, to signal that things are wrong, and incite fear in people. “The world is screwed, put on a mask and hide!” Don’t go out. Don’t spend money. Who’s fault is this? Let’s find someone to blame.

2, do what YOU need to do. I am extreme high risk. Statistically I should be dead. So are my folks. But we’re fine. Not afraid. Can’t hide from it forever. By the way, the virus has a 99.983 survivability rate.

My neighbor smokes. She smokes outside on her back porch. I have 1/3ish acre lot, with a modern home. Newly insulated with all new widows and doors. New weather stripping and air leaks sealed throughout. My thermostat is set at 72 in the winter & 68 in the summer. In the dead of winter with temps around zero or in the heat of summer when it’s 100, my highest bill is $100/month. I can sit on my couch, in my airtight, high efficiency home, watching TV about 75 feet away from my neighbor and I can smell her cigarette. Tell me again how that mask works.

No, I can’t see the smoke. Or the virus.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Thousands of people are dying every day. Thats real and definitely not normal. And its in addition to the normal causes of death like accidents and other sicknesses. Im pretty ok still working and buying things and living and avoiding bars and crowded places and wearing a mask to mitigate this ongoing

Tragedy.

Im just not selfish enough to pretend this is all about me or ignorant enough to imagine my own death is only on me. Youre taking a risk that affects pthers. Sure you might make it home safe but wearing a mask is a really minor inconvenience compared to being flacid and drugged on a ventilator while a machine pumps air into you unable to be see by loved ones as you slowly painfully horiffically die.

I recognize your desire to minimize this and feel normal or comfortable but just seems brutally selfish

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I recognize your desire to minimize this and feel normal or comfortable

> but just seems brutally selfish

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Either way, it's clear theres plenty unknown and absolutely the most we can do is either be reckless or careful with peoples lives given the limited info. And #2, get more info, i.e. testing. More testing is the only reasonable gauge of the actual severity. you're very willing to accept info that suggests the severity is less than would warrant the current response, but dismiss all the indicators that reinforce it's necessity. If we can't agree on what level of recklessness is acceptable from biased (we both unavoidably have some bias in this...) intepretation of the limited data - then we surely could agree we need more data and testing ASAP.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Either way, it's clear theres plenty unknown and absolutely the most we

> can do is either be reckless or careful with peoples lives given the

> limited info. And #2, get more info, i.e. testing. More testing is the

> only reasonable gauge of the actual severity. you're very willing to

> accept info that suggests the severity is less than would warrant the

> current response, but dismiss all the indicators that reinforce it's

> necessity. If we can't agree on what level of recklessness is acceptable

> from biased (we both unavoidably have some bias in this...)

> intepretation of the limited data - then we surely could agree we need

> more data and testing ASAP.

Sadly the test being done aren't conclusive, 1 they are returning too many false positives, 2 anyone tested and shows antibodies is then put in the "current cases" column. So how tf are these people going to use false data to control the population. Also the media is fear mongering everyone with the false information over the inconclusive tests.

The mask is just a small step to a bigger picture of tyranny, once they establish that they can mandate masks and then vaccines they'll draw the conclusion that the government now owns your body and they'll do whatevers in the best interest of the general population without your consent.

Put simply if your sick stay home, if your not your probably gonna be ok. Your choice to wear the mask should be your decision not the government. My body, my choice, what happened to those people?

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Testing has been increasing massively, hence the rise in new cases. I think we’re up to 700,000 tests a day, up from ~120,000.

And it’s not like I don’t take precautions either. I’m quite a clean freak, I naturally avoid people, and when I was sick a while back with whatever weird shit I had, I isolated and got no one else I’ll. There’s also zero current cases and only eight recovered cases in my county of 6k boomers (seems that way sometimes). Im not being selfish; all is not as it seems. I don’t believe this needs a universal approach. Damn, I’ve travelled to some places, here and abroad where I wanted a mask, way before COVID-19.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

It is generally your choice to wear a mask. but it's not just your body and that's why it's not your choice.

Also screw the hype, the CDC and WHO are doing their best to make reliable estimates on the best responses with detailed and nonpartisan data. I mean, the simplest occams razor explanation is this: There's a massive highly contagious natural virus infecting people throughout the world, and it's new and nobody is immune and thousands are dying. Then you have scientists devoted to studying disease and limiting it's spread saying "wear masks, stay apart, wash your hands and we can reduce the rate to match hospital capacity" and we did that and it flattened the curve and where we stopped doing that it tragically fired off through the roof

that's it. thats all that makes obvious sense.

That the doctors and researchers would be intentionally misleading people is whacky conspiracy shit and doesnt make sense, whats the point, do you know any researchers? I do, they're people doing a job which is to learn and educate people about diseases, theres no incentive for dishonesty - and who would coordinate that level of dishonesty - sorry, it isnt real.

that the response is overblown in order to discredit our president is wildly narcissistic but I'm sorry carly simon didnt write that song about you.

The idea that the media is willfully exploiting and sensationalizing this to get views and clicks, yea totally. but in that case just dont rely on sensationalized sources...

And the idea that somehow they made up the mask thing to enforce tyranny is fucking batshit nuts. That's some psycho paranoid delusional shit that falls apart real quickly with any scrutiny - and further if your'e concerned about authoritrian tyranny and focused on whats happening with MASKS right now and not our paramilitary response to protests for equal justice I'm pretty sure your motivation comes from poilitcal propagandists and not a very well vetted logical standpoint...

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Dirty30 Dillon /

> The Dude Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The mask is just a small step to a bigger picture of tyranny, once they

> establish that they can mandate masks and then vaccines they'll draw the

> conclusion that the government now owns your body and they'll do

> whatevers in the best interest of the general population without your

> consent.

See: Abortion and more recent rulings on Birth Control.

As a dude, saying "Wearing a mask is step one to Tyranny," is basically dismissing the fact that women have battled for control over their bodies for centuries by the same government. Or dismissing the fact that up until earlier this century, people could not marry who they wanted.

OR dismissing the fact that people are exercising their constitutional rights to protest, and are being attacked by government agencies resulting in physical injuries and death.

I get the feeling that most people championing the "No Mask" agenda see activists and protestors across the country standing up for equal rights and just want to have their own thing they can "be intelligent" about.

Like I said, I know MULTIPLE people who have died from COVID, including a grandparent. If you don't wear a mask you are choosing to say "I know that other people ignoring the protocol caused the XXX,XXX deaths so far, but I don't care because I'm a self-centered asshole."

Re: My Helmet is my mask

I get the concern that current reaction to spikes is extreme if the assumption is that we're not actually spiking in cases, just spiking in the number we're seeing because testing has increased.

Sadly the data doesnt support that: Yes,testing has been increasing rapidly and that's for sure part of the increase in cases recorded. but it;s spiking in hospitalizations also. you dont get hospitalized because more people are being tested. you get more people being tested and hospitalized because more people are sick and realizing they should be tested...

At any rate we need more testing because it tells us better what we're up against, and you NEED DATA to make good decisions. Right now we're just arguing over likely too reckless or excessively too careful approaches to a still unknown level of severity. More testing is absolutely the fastest most secure way to more reliable and appropriately scaled respones. IF you are right and we dont need masks or distancing and could go back to precovid sorts of normal, opening bars etc etc, that assumption would be validated if we had real accurate numbers of cases, mortality, etc possible only by more testing.

until we have more concrete data it's only responsible to take the more cautious approach. You say we dont need masks etc, but my point is you dont KNOW that, and to assume that is reckless. (edited)

Re: My Helmet is my mask

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> It is generally your choice to wear a mask. but it's not just your body

> and that's why it's not your choice.

>

> Also screw the hype, the CDC and WHO are doing their best to make

> reliable estimates on the best responses with detailed and nonpartisan

Lest we forgot the estimates have been completely wrong every, single, time?

Also you'll notice that in the "orders" its specifically says that "masks are not a substitute for social distancing" so they themselves are saying the mask make no difference, also in the orders you can see that you dont have to wear a mask unless you can keep 6 feet away from people which is totally doable.

And again the test are going up, so the cases are going up but also they add in "probable " to the mix. It's the butcher with a thumb on the scale, pumping the numbers, getting people scared and tanking the economy. The death rates btw are dropping now too. There is no case for the masks plain and simple.

Dont be a Karen.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

> The Dude Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>The death rates btw are dropping now too.

As of this week death rates in the US are rising again, well done.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

> Bas Autowas Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > The Dude Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >The death rates btw are dropping now too.

>

> As of this week death rates in the US are rising again, well done.

Wrong, notice they add probable lol.

Things like probable, assumed, estimates.

BeCaUSe sCiENce !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Screenshot_20200709-162009_Samsung Internet.jpg

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Those probable deaths were removed from pretty much all graphs just days later as science evolves and everyone understood that it didn't help the system.

Screenshot_20200709_233015_com.android.chrome.jpg

Notice that last 3 day bump starting at the end? They haven't included today yet but it's not looking good.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Half the states, including texas are still counting probable. I'm not a scientist but I have to point out the fact the graph is showing a trend of declining deaths, yes there are some spikes but the deaths have and are still falling despite the .massive increase in testing (those tests also showing false positives)

Re: My Helmet is my mask

> Seth B Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Random person: “Wear your mask!”

>

> Me: The viral particles are much smaller than the pores of the mask, so

> the mask is ineffective at filtering them. Right?

>

> R: No, they travel on droplets and the masks keep the droplets out. Or

> they keep them in if you’re sick.

>

> M: So wait, how is the virus transmitted?

>

> R: Through droplets. Wear the mask.

>

> M: Droplets?

>

> R: Yes, like droplets spewed through a cough or sneeze.

>

> M: So through people who are showing symptoms?

>

> R: Yes

>

> M: So why do healthy people need to wear masks?

>

> R: Because of asymptomatic spread. Listen to the experts.

>

> M: I am listening to the experts. Many studies show, and even the WHO

> announced, that asymptomatic transmission is exceedingly rare. Did you

> read that?

>

> R: WHO walked that back to clarify that its presymptomatic spread that’s

> concerning.

>

> M: Presymptomatic?

>

> R: Yes, like they are infected but showing no symptoms.

>

> M: Symptoms like coughing or sneezing?

>

> R: Yes.

>

> M: So how is the virus spread again?

>

> R: Just wear the mask.

>

> M: Are you going to answer the question?

>

> R: It’s like pants.

>

> M: Pants?

>

> R: If a person pees in public without pants on, you have a greater

> chance of getting pee on you. Your risk is reduced further if you are

> wearing pants too.

>

> M: First of all, people don’t pee in public. Second, if they did pee in

> public, the only way someone’s stream of urine would hit me is if they

> were directly aiming for me and standing close enough to hit me. And

> third, I don’t care if you wear pants. How does this relate?

>

> R: If someone coughs on you in public you’ll care.

>

> M: People don’t just cough on each other. The last time someone coughed

> directly in my face was when I had toddlers and they didn’t understand

> common courtesy and germ transmission. The only way someone would cough

> directly on me in public is if they were aiming. Anyway pants don’t keep

> the pee in, it’s still going to get everywhere. Pants just change the

> direction of the flow. Same with masks.

>

> R: Common courtesy?! You don’t have common courtesy if you’re refusing

> to do something as simple as wearing a mask!

>

> M: How is it courteous to ask me to do something I disagree with (based

> on research) especially when I’m not sick or showing any symptoms when

> the virus is spread through the droplets of people who are showing

> symptoms?

>

> R: You’ll think differently if you get sick.

>

> M: If I get sick, I’ll stay home. But if I must go out I will be happy

> to not cough on people. But just to clarify, would you stand near me in

> public if I were wearing a mask and coughing?

>

> R: No, I mean, if you get sick, you could die.

>

> M: The virus has a 99.983% survival rate.

>

> R: It’s not about you, it’s about protecting the vulnerable.

>

> M: If I am not sick or showing symptoms how am I further protecting the

> vulnerable by wearing a mask? Studies also show these masks put the

> wearer at increased risk of illness.

>

> R: You can’t listen to those studies, you need to listen to

> professionals in the fields of medicine and science.

>

> M: These studies ARE from professionals in the fields of medicine and

> science.

>

> R: They are obviously flawed.

>

> M: How so?

>

> R: It wouldn’t be a mandate if it weren’t important.

>

> M: Why is it a mandate now that the death rate has plummeted when it

> wasn’t a mandate during the peak?

>

> R: Because of new studies on masks.

>

> M: So masks have never been studied before, in the entire history of

> medicine?

>

> R: It’s a new virus.

>

> M: A new virus that is transmitted in the same way as other viruses. How

> is it transmitted again? Through droplets of people showing symptoms?

> So, if I’m not sick or showing symptoms and I have no fever and I’m not

> coughing, how would my wearing a mask further prevent transmission?

>

> R: Stop being an jerk and just wear the mask.

>

> M: So, you’re asking that I stop thinking critically, accept a fascist

> mandate, join the herd, and walk blindly into a dangerous abyss of ever

> increasing control over my self sovereignty, all while signaling my

> virtue?

>

> R: I’ll report you if you don’t.

>

> M: What country am I in again?

I got a good laugh out of that. The only problem i see is that we still dont know everything about this virus and we cant trust our news media.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

True that!

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Dirty30 Dillon /

> The Dude Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not a scientist

Glad we all agree.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > The Dude Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I'm not a scientist

>

> Glad we all agree.

Nobody is talking to you npc

Re: My Helmet is my mask

Dirty30 Dillon /

> The Dude Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > > The Dude Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > I'm not a scientist

>

> >

>

> > Glad we all agree.

>

> Nobody is talking to you npc

Pick on us little guys on the sidelines, anything but actually trying to formulate a reasonable thought.

Kudos, killer.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

I'm still curious if the increasing cases and apparent decreasing mortality is related to places like nursing homes where it spread most rapidly initially, because they were unable to separate everyone, versus now a majority of cases being among younger and much lower risk populations as people go "live their lives"

it'd be great if we had more better data from more testing though huh...

Still, I don't think we're anywhere near understanding this, and I still think it's selfishly reckless to say "the death rates might not be as severe (but still thousands daily) so let's ignore all recommendations from health experts and stop trying to spread the disease"

I don't agree we're at a point we can just give up. "stop fighting and just recklessly let people die unecessarily cuz that's easier for me and my savings" based on the argument that increasing cases and an increasing death count might be exaggerated? Like also they might not... Consequences of playing it safe, wearing a mask - umm i dunno, the backs of my ears start to hurt after a few hours.

Consequences of giving up and quitting - possible loss of hundreds or thousands of lives unnecessarily.

Re: My Helmet is my mask

pops made a good point in the other thread, that there's a certain unwillingness to examine middleground in much of the media, instead focusing on extremes and a black and white all or nothing approach

So i want to reiterate I am NOT advocating for staying isolated and closing everything forever, I'm all for economic reopening. that's absolultely my goal, as it is yours, but I'm saying that in order to do it safely as soon as possible, we need a coordinated public health effort and people wearing masks and taking precautions. These are toward the same goal, and I'm saying we can do it more safely and possibly even with sooner reopening if we can do it with more testing and better data and limiting spread rates by following recommendations of health officials.

pro-mask is not anti-business. it's trying to get everything stable as safely as possible as soon as possible. the wild card of pretending masks are a violation of your individual freedoms is a wrench in the gears, and worse it might kill somebody.

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