Changed my mind about electric

Ѭ ɞŦЯʚOluv Ѫѫ /

After seeing someone's garage just burn down and take out a couple cars and almost their house I think I'll stick with gas motorcycles thank you

Re: Changed my mind about electric

Hmmmm, really considering going electric, what's the story with the fire?

Re: Changed my mind about electric

It scares me that my kid has his electric moped in the garage with my stuff. He could easily forget the charger and leave it on for a week. Maybe we should get a timer for the plug so it will automatically shut off after 3-4 hours.

My garage is all concrete. Unless the electric bike is placed next to a fuel source, the battery should just shursht into shames and leave a mess of soot everywhere. If you have the thing leaning up against exposed wood framing next to a gas can, then the story gets worse.

Really sorry about the disaster. Thanks for sharing. It is a real danger that deserves being repeated and corrected.

I am scared of Electric cars for this reason more so. In a crash, if they short out, it could be an instant inferno or hundreds of DC volts at very high amps. Haven’t heard about it happening, but if everyone was driving, and crashing, EVs right now, it would probably be a real thing. Especially with the “budget” card that take short cuts and use inferior materials.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

Explosions and fire are a risk with any energy source. Pretending batteries are more dangerous than gasoline is silly. The PPIHC race team I was on had our rider crash into the mountain (thank God it was here and not any of the many turns where he would have flown off) going around 40-50 mph and the bike was fine. The garage bay that we worked out of had several high voltage battery packs sitting around collecting dust and nothing ever happened cause nobody ever went sticking a fork into the contacts/cells or let them overcharge or anything like that.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

im actually reading this now while half-ignoring a safety presentation for work about arc flash hazards. kinda ironic.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

I wasn’t trying to say they are super dangerous. Just that it takes active participation to stay safe. Something that some people aren’t ready for or capable of.

I have rarely seen a vehicle fire due to fuel leaks or a gas tank rupture in a crash. I have seen tons of cars burn down from electrical problems. Adding tons of cells and energy seems like it naturally will lead to fires. Until the safety features are all figured out and operators behave accordingly.

I’m definitely not anti-electric. I work around high power electronics professionally too. In my opinion, electricity is much harder to contain safely and control in a bad situation than liquid fuels.

Hopefully, all current EVs have accelerometers (like airbags) that isolate the cells in an impact. If not, they should.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

Ѭ ɞŦЯʚOluv Ѫѫ /

> Nick Haber Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Explosions and fire are a risk with any energy source. Pretending

> batteries are more dangerous than gasoline is silly.

I don't think anyone is pretending that.

Batteries explode with tremendous stored energy.

Gasoline needs an ignition source and a build up of fumes to do that. Pretending it's like the movies and someone is going to toss a cigarette butt by your alleyway and KABOOM! is equally silly.

What you might be missing here (and I'm not sharing photos or more until I get permission as I'm sure it's an active probe) is that modifying a moped engine can result in very little catastrophe (other than lost money if you f up) but when you start building and modifying performance batteries by soldering 300 vapes together then there's a danger it will explode while you leave it charging. As we just learned

Since you like videos there's plenty of guys using old washing machine parts and vape batteries in a cardboard box. It just isn't safe. It's still a lot of new technology and the laws aren't even caught up. Imagine being a landlord and your tenants build some meth head lectric mods. You're gonna want rules to avoid that.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

I saw one last year on my way home from work, I was on a bicycle and smelled like someone had left the e-brake on, then I noticed which car, it was this versa I think like a few cars ahead and you could tell it was smoking and I though, man that car needs work.

then the smoke got real bad, at a light it was visibly pouring smoke outta the hood. the guy in the passenger seat got out and was about to go open the hood and I had to physically stop him cuz that'd been a disaster, I got him to the side while the lady driving was just fucking maniacally yelling at him about "I told you this thing needed work, didn't I tell you that you never listen to me" and i'm there like "lady! get the fuck outta the car, it's on fire what the fuck are you doing."

If I had to guess it looked like electrical problems in and leaky oil. who knows. maybe cat caught it, all the plastic went up quick. went from smoking to blaze in under 30s.

Actually a few months before I had to help some kid whose motorcycle, old CB350, had caught on fire, he just dumped it and ran to a gas station lookin for water. I dunno why people wanna do the wrongest things but both times I had to be the person to call 911 and prevent someone from making a much worse problem.

that time looked like just a leaky petcock and some scorching glowing exhaust pipes

One kinda interesting to consider tho regarding electrical fires, like frayed wires or whatever, electric cars often have less wiring.

burn.JPG

Re: Changed my mind about electric

WillD,

You seem to like stories, so I’ll share one about fires.

I used to work in Brinks armored cars. I started as a driver. I think you had to. One day, I was rolling toward a busy intersection and the engine just died and I heard something that sounded like arcing.

Armored money trucks, at least the old ones, were not glamorous at all. Just loud, rattling bare steel and essentials. I came to a stop and started smelling the unmistakable scent of burning metal and rubber. But no smoke yet.

I told the guy in the back, on the radio, that I thought something was burning and was going to try to restart the truck and get out of the middle of the road. It started back up and I pulled into a parking lot right in the corner of the intersection.

Brinks has a rule about someone always having to be secured in the front of the truck. At no time should the driver and messenger both be out. Fires are a special circumstance, but need extra security.

We could see smoke coming out of the left front fender. Pulled the hood and found small flames coming from the frame where battery cables had worn through a grommet and the insulation. All that was burning was the insulation and we hit it with an extinguisher repeatedly to keep the flames down.

I called 911 and told the dispatcher that I was an armored car driver and I had to leave my vehicle because it was on fire. They told me I wasn’t in their jurisdiction and transferred me to another dept. the next dispatcher got the address and sent the fire department. I told them, since there was a large amount of liability involved, I would like the police sent as well. They transferred me to police dispatch. Police dispatch got the address and said they would send someone.

I want to say several minutes went buy and the police dispatch called back. They confirmed the address. Which I was reading from the intersection signs and giving them the businesses at the location. The fire dept got there first. At this time, the fire was out and there was dry extinguisher dust everywhere. Another Brinks truck was in route. And we were just standing there. The police dispatch called back again! Almost insisting that I must be giving incorrect information because they could not find us. An armored car, skirted in yellow powder with a couple fire trucks in busy intersection.

I told them to call and ask the fire department, because they knew where it was. It was just me being a little pissed, because they had an attitude. Afterward, I was proud that I got it right. Usually, I think of something witty too late.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> im actually reading this now while half-ignoring a safety presentation

> for work about arc flash hazards. kinda ironic.

I took that training as a utility operator. Zones, voltages, BORING! Had to have it to assist maintenance.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

Tesla was having issues with fires a while back from over charging. I know that lithium batteries are susceptible to catching fire if over or under charging or unequal charging.

There was a huge issue with rc batteries burning houses down because of that reason as well, so they started selling charging bags in case a fire broke out the battery would be contained and not burn your house down.

On a show I watched called hasta Alaska their vw bus had a lithium cell made from computer batteries that caught fire because the solar panels weren't covered during storage and over charged the cell. Burnt their bus to shit.

The tech has improved since on lithium and it's more rare but still happens. Electrical things with that high of voltage are not to be taken lightly.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

Are these people not using BMS? I mean shit, it's so easy to not overcharge cells with a proper Battery Management System it's kind of silly to think people aren't using them on home-made battery packs

Re: Changed my mind about electric

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discovered the + and - sit extremly close one day.

then theres a thin circular insulator shrink wrapped next to my discovery. impact the battery pack could start a melt down.

turn the steel into heating element and toast the people.

parallel a pair and a led from billboard lighting makes long lasting flashlight. ferrite magnet and stick anyplace. bms is costly though.

Re: Changed my mind about electric

yea it's mostly people failing to use bms or failures with the battery management.

There was a massive NHTSA report on it in like 2015 after the first few years of switching to Li batteries.

They determined that battery cars were same or slightly safer regarding bursting into flames, and that the overall damage is less if an electric car burns instead of a gas one - less likely to spread, less harmful emissions in enclosed like parking garage, less shit leaking into the ground kinda stuff. and that was 2015- they've gotten a lot better since.

But that's mostly looking at like impact fires. like burst into flames from crashes. they're actually very infrequent, like less than 1 a year. interestingly the bigger risk isnt them burning, but electrical hazards if the automatic power shutoff fails - so now 1st responders need addl. training to disconnect or de-energize for electric crashes.

The scary thing about electrics is the unexpected fire from not doing anything. Just sitting in a garage and poof - firebomb.

but actually now that i'm looking into that too, it seems alot of the issues were power cord issues and stuff - like not directly the car's fault, any more than you could blame TV's for being a fire hazard if the power cord shorts.

Samsung phones had a random explodey issue w/ Li batteries a few years ago because of discrete iron particles- lil pieces of metal shavings and stuff that got into the battery materials and layered into the cells - it'd puncture the separation layers, short out and ignite the whole thing - now they have really extreme (i'd say wayyyy excessive) regulations on metal impurity.

And the dreamliner, a bunch of it's issues were Li battery safety related too.

TLDR; yeah there's a hazard, it's pretty minimal though and no more (possibly less) hazrd than alternatives, though maybe less predictable? neat-o

Re: Changed my mind about electric

I love fiery crashes. Js

Re: Changed my mind about electric

Ѭ ɞŦЯʚOluv Ѫѫ /

Someone got their electric bike yesterday so we went out on a rip. I still prefer the K-pipe because it lasts more than an hour of riding on a single tank

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