WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

Looking for a Minarelli P6 or P4 engine shipped within the United States ideally.

PM if you have something.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jonathan Gibson /

Are you after just cases? I have a p4/6 with a broken con rod. Piston was seized in the barrel. The gearbox is all there though.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

> Jonathan Gibson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Are you after just cases? I have a p4/6 with a broken con rod. Piston

> was seized in the barrel. The gearbox is all there though.

Ideally looking for something complete and in decent condition, as parts aren't easy to come by. How much are you asking for that that? Is the cylinder run-able?

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Dirty30 Dillon /

Just an FYI, check the poster's location. He's in the UK.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jonathan Gibson /

Yes forgot to say I'm in the UK. The cylinder is non existent, it's basically the bottom end. I bought it thinking it was a 6 speed. It's wasn't. The piston was seized to the cylinder, had to cut the cylinder off. The Conrod is damaged but I was guessing you would rebuild it anyway. Have you looked on the minarelli p6 shop on Facebook? I don't speak Italian but they have alot of bits going on there. What bike is it for? Mine was meant to be for a peripoli Oxford. Got to repaint and rebuild it.

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Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

> Jonathan Gibson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Yes forgot to say I'm in the UK. The cylinder is non existent, it's

> basically the bottom end. I bought it thinking it was a 6 speed. It's

> wasn't. The piston was seized to the cylinder, had to cut the cylinder

> off. The Conrod is damaged but I was guessing you would rebuild it

> anyway. Have you looked on the minarelli p6 shop on Facebook? I don't

> speak Italian but they have alot of bits going on there. What bike is it

> for? Mine was meant to be for a peripoli Oxford. Got to repaint and

> rebuild it.

Yeah I'm in the US so I didn't really want to try and ship anything from over seas. It's not for a specific bike, I'm embarking on a project to build a 50cc Grand Prix esque moto gp style racer (Think Kreidler Va Veen or Derbi Angel Nieto full fairing style). After a lot of research and consideration I decided the Minarelli P4/6 engine would be the best platform for it. Unfortunately, they are far and few between in the US.

Surprisingly enough though, a few of these engines were actually imported in the 70s ish on behalf of the Indian motorcycle company for some of their dirt bikes. The coolest part is that they came in a few different flavors on displacements: 50cc, 70cc, 75cc, and 80cc, as well as with two different transmission: 4 and 6 speed.

Luckily I was actually able to snag a 75cc P6 (they call this, I believe, the P675 engine off of the Indian MX76 or 74) yesterday on eBay for under $200 with a dellorto carb. I was told that it came off either an ME or MX 75 bike, and the cases have 75cc and P6 imprinted on them. There is a lot of information on these bikes here, but looking at catalog scans I can't find any that use 75cc P6 engines, only 70cc. So I am not sure of if it is a 4 or 6 speed but we will find out. I'll attach a picture of the same type of engine so you can see what I mean.

I have a feeling the gearing is going to be a lot different than some of the P6s that are overseas for grand prix style asphalt racing, favoring the low end torque needed for dirt racing, but it's pretty wicked that it's already 75cc. And I'll likely go with a smaller than normal rear sprocket to attempt to compensate this difference. But, I won't even need to kit it! An extremely similar engine, possibly even the same model, sold here on moped army a couple years ago. You can find it if you search 'FS: Minarelli P6".

Sorry that was long and you didn't ask for all that information lol but I figured it might be useful for someone else in the future. I'll likely be creating a separate thread to discuss these engines and also to document my build.

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Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jonathan Gibson /

I'm very jealous that you found a p6! I'm always looking towards Italy but everything is so expensive over there!

I'm pretty sure treatland do different front sprocket sizes for them, if you search for minarelli it should come up with some.

Strangely I was hoping to build a Kreidler style bike with a tomos at50 that a bloke gave me for nothing. I thought it was a 2 speed tomos but it turns out to be a 5 speed. There's a few bikes for me to build first.

What did you search for on eBay out of interest?

I enjoyed the long message, it's nice to find someone else trying to build racers.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

I just searched up "Minarelli P6" and there happened to be a listing ending within 24 hours. I think I got lucky, because before I placed my max bid I did some research by viewing completed listings and saw one other listed at $400+ buy it now or best offer, and the seller accepted a best offer.

The Kreidler Van Veen was a huge inspo for taking on this project but I'm just infatuated with all of the insanely high revving 2 stroke racers from back in the day. Don't get me wrong I love my variated vespas but something about a 50-75cc two stroke with a 6 speed manual gearbox is so amazing. This project is going to be a complete pain in the ass though I can already tell. I highly doubt I'm going to find a frame for this engine. And not to mention the fairings/bodywork and tank cost an arm and a leg. . . I likely won't be able to get those for years. There is a replica unpainted fiberglass seat cowl/pan and tank for sale on ebay rn for a derbi angel but shit it's so expensive!

I'm probably going to begin by focusing primarily on the engine and getting it running to start. I'll build a stand so that I can mount the engine w/ carb and exhaust onto something in my garage, fashion a temporary fuel tank and get a throttle hooked up. This way I can be sure the engine and it's ability to run is all sorted through, before beginning to actually source/build a roller.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

I got a Indian minarelli P4 70cc off eBay a few months ago for 75 bucks. Just needs the ignition.

I was looking at the one you got, but didn't go for it.

I'm pretty sure that the only 4speed P6 is stamped P6/4R. But the Indians might use a different code.

Good luck on your project...

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

Man that is a killer deal! I sifted through all the completed listings, and never came across yours . . . Wish I could have jumped on that! I'm happy with the price I paid so it's all good.

What are you doing with your P4 if you don't mind me asking? Have you had the chance to run it yet?

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

P4 and I believe P6 both use the same conrod as a V1 fyi

There used to be a dude in Seattle that ran a scooter shop called "Hodgespeed", and he had a few of the P4 conrods and I've had them pressed into V1 cranks and run them because they are the same :)

That shop doesn't seem to be open anymore tho as of like a year ago :/

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jonathan Gibson /

I thought they did a shorter stroke conrod and a longer stroke conrod or is it a shorter and longer crank? Does anybody know what the p4/6 means on the engines? Obviously a p6 is a 6 gear but what's with the extra 6 on a p4 engine? I asked an Italian guy selling some gears on eBay and was none the wiser.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

> Jonathan Gibson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I thought they did a shorter stroke conrod and a longer stroke conrod or

> is it a shorter and longer crank? Does anybody know what the p4/6 means

> on the engines? Obviously a p6 is a 6 gear but what's with the extra 6

> on a p4 engine? I asked an Italian guy selling some gears on eBay and

> was none the wiser.

P6/4r is a 4 speed variant of the p6 engine, what I have on my cimatti 86.

And yes there are different stroke length crankshafts. Also there are different size and width crankshaft lobes..Con rod length has nothing to do with stroke length. I believe that most of them have the same rod length at 85mm, but I could be mistaken.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Dirty30 Dillon /

I've worked on and ridden the late model P4 (M4), both Compact System head and Radial fin.

Great, simple motors and they are mad fun.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jonathan Gibson /

Do you have any info on what type engines there are and any manuals anywhere? I really struggle to find any info out on them.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

As far as the Indian variation of the Minarelli engines goes, which seem to be the most common to find here in the US, this is a good link that shows the various different types of engines. Using this page to determine the model of the associated bike, you can then go to this link to further nail down some of the technical specs for the engine.

Other than this and some very small conversations on MA and Facebook, there really isn't much out there in the way of information on the internet for these engines in English. I am working on compiling a database of all the useful and translatable information that I can find and will share it once it's a little more substantial. There are also service manuals for the Indian bikes that do go through some engine internals and stuff, that you might find helpful.

Regarding P6/P4: as I understand it, the evolution of the P4 into the P6 was not just related to the addition of 2 more gears . . . I read this on an Italian forum that asked which engine people preferred. Here is the link. I am not fully aware of what changes were made, though. But I think that the "P6/4" was an engine that included all of the benefits from the evolution to the P6, but uses the four speed gearbox. I think some racers like the 4 speed gear box better for whatever reason.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

> Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Man that is a killer deal! I sifted through all the completed listings,

> and never came across yours . . . Wish I could have jumped on that! I'm

> happy with the price I paid so it's all good.

>

> What are you doing with your P4 if you don't mind me asking? Have you

> had the chance to run it yet?

Haven't run it yet. The magneto and coil are missing. And the case is messed up with the bolts broken off where the coil bolts in, so I need to get those. otherwise, the rest of the engine is in perfect shape, looks like it's barely been run.

I'm building a 63 Testi Weekend Cross up right now. There's a thread in the general discussion. Almost done. Its got the old oval case P4 with the fan induction shroud. It's beautiful.

IMG_20200327_161912.jpg

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jonathan Gibson /

Bairdco I think I have one of those tucked away in the garage somewhere. I also have a fantic 4 engine I was going to put into a peripoli giulietta that has a 3 speed on it at the minute. All this talk of minarelli engines made me buy another from Italy last week, just waiting on it to arrive. Does anyone have any tips on how to split the cases? They do seem to be very well stuck together!

That's not my bike, mines in a bit worse condition! But that's what the giulietta looks like.

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Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

I would like some more information about splitting cases as well. I am thinking of starting a thread over in general discussion focused on the P6/P4 so we folk can get some more advice and help, and keep it out of buy + sell.

There is a post in the Lovers of Minarelli V1 group on facebook that was of some NOS Minarelli tools, that apparently were for the P6 engine. Some folks were commenting and suggesting that you need these case splitters otherwise you crack the cases. I'm sure it's been done without them, and I would like to hear how. I know Chad Burke has the NOS tools at his shop in Michigan for working on these engines, and I may end up taking it to him for a rebuilt, but I definitely want to try and get some more information. I am going to actually start that thread now and I'll link you guys to it shortly.

Brandon Weiss (mopedallday) has a P4 and a P6 engine, I believe he said he has never split the cases on them but he may know more about doing it.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Jason ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

Brandon, I'm sure there are different con rods available.

The ones I had pressed into V1 cranks were stamped Minarelli, so at least stock they are the same con rods, that's all.

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

> 🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Brandon, I'm sure there are different con rods available.

>

> The ones I had pressed into V1 cranks were stamped Minarelli, so at

> least stock they are the same con rods, that's all.

I didn't mean the rods. The lobes of the crankshafts can be different sizes, where it won't fit in the wrong type of case. Also different strokes from 39mm all the way to 44mm and up

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Steven Bolduc /

I may have p6 parts for u. Steven

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Can you tell me more about this engine please.

My email is findingmrsmith@ hotmail.com

Re: WTB Minarelli P6 or P4

Steven Bolduc /

Pm sent

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