Vepsa points gap check question

Bad Cadillac™ /

Time for me to check both my Vespa point gap. I researched and it appears the gap should be between .3 and .5 mm.

Got feeler gauges so I'll get it spot on, no issue there.

My quesion is, can someone please confirm with me this gap setting is the same for ALL Vespa models?

Thanks!

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Bad Cadillac™ /

Anyone?

I believe I'm correct in my thinking and research but I just wanted to confirm with someone.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

.35 to .45 should be fine. I want to say I lean towards .35 but it has actually been awhile since I have played with this.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Agree with Declan. The point is to see where it ends up dynamically. Use a strobe after marking where ya want it to be degree wise. I am pretty sure the degree to mm posted on crazy Wayne's profile for a puch should work for a Vespa. That's what I was doing with my brAvo. You can read my posts. It was at it crazy a few weeks ago. Trying to grab some more power out of my kit. I think I ended up at about 20 degrees. Make sure you use the super small set of feeler gauges.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Bad Cadillac™ /

Thanks guys! I'm very mechanically inclined but this is something I've never done before. I've cleaned points but never checked or adjusted them and while I know I can do it, I just want to be sure I do not go backwards when I do this.

My gauges go up to .38 so I guess that'll be where I set them. And I do not have a timing light, so I won't be able to check that.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Mikdabike Fatcity /

POINT GAP ON VESPA IN USA NORMAL CLIMATE IS 18-20 PER SERVICE BULLETIN.

BTW, SACHS GAPS AT 16-18 HELP ADVANCE DESPITE THEN PREVELLENT EPA RULES.

I SET ALL POINTS AT 16, THE GAUGE IS NEVER RIGHT.

THEY ROCK!

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

What mike means is he doesn't set the gap he sets the timing with the point gap. On bikes with fixed stators, setting the point gap without checking the timing will make sure it runs, but not necessarily make sure it runs its best.

Use a timing light or dmm with continuity function to set the timing at 18-20 like mike suggests. I run my grande at 19* and it loves it.

You cannot time a vespa with feeler gauges - you can only set the gap. By setting the gap without checking the timing you have no idea what or where your timing is. Point gap doesn't really matter on these robust 6v systems. Ignition timing does.

Graham Motzing wrote a great piece on 6v ignitions. If you want to know more technically why it doesn't matter on these little bikes as much, I would suggest looking for that thread.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Bad Cadillac™ /

I've no idea how to use a DMM to check timing, never done that before. I did search more than one way for 6 volt ignitions but did not find a post. Possibly its buried in a thread? I searched under Graham too. If it were in Wiki I could probably find it easier I suppose.

TO use a DMM, do I connect one lead to one side of the points, the other lead to the other side of the points and then crank the engine over to 18-20 degrees and when the DMM beeps, stop and tighten the points screw?

From the sounds of it then, I guess I should not even mess with the gap and leave well enough alone if I can't check timing.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Points may have to be filed and dressed with emery cloth to make good contact.If contact is poor,then potential spark is weak.

Like they said above,you can THEN(after filing and sanding the points or better yet,REPLACE them with new)use an induction type timing light to check timing. don-ohio (:^)

Re: Vepsa points gap check question, TIMING

Hello,

I have the same question about the setting the timing. Setting the gap is easy, but I can't figure out how to adjust the stator to set the timing. Did you figure it out?

Thanks

Jam

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Dirty30 Dillon /

There is no stator adjustment on a vespa ped. Just points gap.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question, TIMING

Thank you Dillon. So what are they talking about with setting the timing? I know how to do it on my Puch. The points timing on my vespa seems to open on it own when the flywheel spins, and is locked and set in by the woodruff wedge. Is there some minor screw or something that allows me to adjust the point WHEN the gap opens. John

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Lay the bike on its side then look in the window. Move the crank back and forth till you see that the points are opening to their widest ever.

Now you can insert a .4mm / .16 feeler gauge in between the contacts. If it is not a perfect fit, then you loosen the set screw (just under the yellow circle in pic) just enough so when you insert a small screwdriver in the little triangle recess, you can force the points gap open or closed.

When satisfied, lock the set screw back down.

I always just drop my motor when fiddlfucking with vespa ignition.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Thank you for the information, but isn't that just setting the gap, not the timing of the points opening?

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

John, the gap really doesn't matter so much on mopeds so long as it isn't too big. As long as it electrically breaks, it'll spark. By changing the gap, you change when the points cam follower engages the cam lobe thereby changing your ignition timing. On a vespa, when you change the gap you change the timing and vice versa.

Since point dwell isn't really an issue on mopeds (they seem to run fine at any reasonable gap, likely because they're single cylinder engines) timing is usually the driving factor when it comes to ignitions with stationary stators (like vespa). For people concerned with performance, point gap typically isn't measured, rather when the points break with respect to cranshaft position before top dead (or, ignition timing). This is why we say "point gap doesn't matter" for vespa - because the measured gap doesn't matter. What matters is when the gap starts to happen (the points break) with respect to flywheel rotation.

Hope this answers your question. (edited)

Re: Vepsa points gap check question, THANK YOU

WOW! Finally a clear and precise answer. I thank you and am humbled by your mastery of clarity.

" By changing the gap, you change when the points cam follower engages the cam lobe thereby changing your ignition timing. On a vespa, when you change the gap you change the timing and vice versa. "

This would explain my results with opening the gap and getting better performance. I now also understand what I can do to fine tune it.

THANKS so much. I'm not worthy.....:P

Jam

Re: Vepsa points gap check question, THANK YOU

BRAAAP! Glad to be of help!

Re: Vepsa points gap check question, THANK YOU

BRAAP! I'm so old. I had to look it up. I'm going to now use that for every elation instead of the overly used AWESOME. Thanks for the urban education to a North Dakota country boy.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Hey, I'm using this old thread for reference and so far so good. My Question is, I'm installing new points. The shop manual says to set the gap 0.015 in. Im assuming ( never assume) the points in the thread are probably just be reset?

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Richard Eberline /

point gap sets your timing, start at .016, Check timing, non kitted 19 degrees BTDC.

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

I'm putting my olympia 43mm kit on it .with 13:13 carb ,Proma circuit pipe. Will I be ok at .17 ?

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

So I keep going over this thread.So as Jam Joe states ,if I'm following correctly, as soon as it gaps, set it. And Richard said Vespa usually gaps at .016. I hope I'm not going too overboard with this but I think it's easier to do this on the bench. Then if need be, fine tune on the rack outside after firing it up?

Re: Vepsa points gap check question

Richard Eberline /

Les, temperature gauge and a timing light. 17 degrees is okay, .015 or less on the gap.

Please post instructions, piston arrow goes towards gasser or intake. I did one this way and the engine ran great. 66 main or higher, 40 mph plus.

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