Cursed E50

The other night I finally got my build to run and I was able to go for and enjoy my first real ride on this bike. It ran AMAZINGLY...until suddenly it didn't. Right after the 2nd rebuild was completed it would turn over first pull. As the day went on it would take a couple more pulls, but it always would start. Then the next day it just wouldn't start at all. I have strong spark, compression, and fuel flow. I have checked my timing over and over again, checked/replaced so many plugs, checked all the seals, torqued down the head and every other part that could cause an air leak, I have inspected every millimeter of this engine inside and out and cannot find the problem. To my eye, on paper, it is a perfect build. But it absolutely refuses to start. Even shooting carb cleaner straight down the intake it won't turn over.

I have pestered all of my friends. Some say check the timing (checked and rechecked) some say it's too rich, some say it's too lean, there must be something I'm missing.

All I can get out of it is the occasional pop out of the exhaust at the end of every few pulls. I'm going mad and beginning to consider the problems may be supernatural in nature.

What could I possibly be missing? What could cause this bike to run perfectly and then suddenly not at all?

Set up the one and only time it ran correctly (has not changed):

Treats 70cc kit

Race crank

16.16 Sha (77 jet)

Proma circuit pipe

B7hs ngk plug

Please help me. I've been working on this for months with nothing but problems, and I finally get it to run like I had dreamed of it and it just stops working with no explanation.

Re: Cursed E50

check your lights/electrics. could just be a bulb that blew that cut the circuit. are you running a voltage regulator? that extra power brings it over the 6v the electrics are meant to run at

also, check out your carb, could be something in the jets(edited)

Re: Cursed E50

derek from black pipes moped gang /

“I have strong spark, compression, and fuel flow.“

How did you determine all of these things? I suspect that one of these factors is not true otherwise it would run.

Re: Cursed E50

What electrical system do you have? Sometimes a failing HT coil or condenser can cause these symptoms.

Re: Cursed E50

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

iirc he has the stock puch stator points bits, but i could be wrong. was durnk

When you say you checked the timing, did you use a timing light? How do the points and the little flywheel lobe follower look? is it loose?

I second checking the HT coil. I had one that had a small barely visible crack and in certain weather conditions (wet/humid) it would spark through the crack to the frame. it was neat. Stumped me for a while.

also, have you tried asking it what's wrong?

ouijaboard1.jpg

(edited)

Re: Cursed E50

Regular spark test, holding it against the head and turning the engine over, also removed the head with the plug installed to make sure it was sparking when installed in the head. Compression tester to determine compression (150 psi)

Removed fuel line at petcock, has flow, removed at carb has flow, removed float bowl, still has flow

Re: Cursed E50

This is the ignition I am using. Has the internal self grounding ignition coil

Screenshot_20190419-100655.png

Re: Cursed E50

Yes, I used a timing light. Points and lobe look tight and correct in every way I can see

Re: Cursed E50

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

Like 60% of the reviews for that say the points or the condensers suck and make it 5 miles. Sounds familiar...

Re: Cursed E50

If the coil, condenser, or HT Coil are not functioning properly it is hard to tell with sparking it on the head. If you use a timing light on the timing mark you could tell if the mark disappears or the light is not flashing at times. But I thing the issuer is in the electronics

Re: Cursed E50

I have been suspecting electrical issues but I'm not super well versed in diagnosis of them so I was unsure. I have had TONS of issues with the stator and have gone through a few of them already, as well as multiple sets of points. Feel like I should just bike the bullet and convert to cdi

Re: Cursed E50

CDI is cheap Chinese junk and unreliable. Puch stock points stators are bulletproof and very reliable. If you've gone thru several, it's not the stator's fault, you're doing something wrong.(edited)

Re: Cursed E50

Nevermind^^. I see you're using cheap junky aftermarket points stators. Buy original.

Re: Cursed E50

What is your experience with them? I've only heard positive things, so I'm curious. I was considering purchasing the v2 cdi party from treats, but again I would love to hear the negatives about it.

Re: Cursed E50

I also need to have a 12v light coil in order to properly power my LEDs

Re: Cursed E50

The trigger burns up easy. Had 4 fail. It sometimes fries the CDI box when that happens. Replacing the trigger with the MBK trigger is a good option but needs to be trimmed town.

I think the puch trigger fails because it rubs on the flywheel sometimes. Had a few friends with this issue. If you get one check for the clearance issues.

https://www.treatland.tv/pietcard-CDI-internal-coil-3055-bosch-puch-p/pietcard-cdi-3055.htm

Good info on the reviews. The right number flywheel is the key.

I have gave up on them and either run the brown Pietcard coil and 2041 box. Time it with out the key way or go with an HPI. Graham said he had luck with the brown Picard and Jog box. I did not get my setup to fire with this so I stuck with the 2041. Either way I think Picard is a better option and will give you a curve.(edited)

Re: Cursed E50

kevin Smellaflange /

do you have a spare condenser?

w/a new spark plug & some pre-mix down the plug hole, it should pop-off

a ''now bad'' condenser might be it.

Re: Cursed E50

derek from black pipes moped gang /

I didn’t see you say the plug was coming out wet with gas after trying to start it. It could be that the carb is spotless and gas is still not getting to the combustion chamber. I had a Derbi with bad crank seals that did this. Just my two cents.

Re: Cursed E50

Just so I can gain some understanding how is it that I would still have spark even though the condenser may be bad I would think that the condenser being bad would mean I don't have spark at all

Re: Cursed E50

> Jaxx Parrow Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Just so I can gain some understanding how is it that I would still have

> spark even though the condenser may be bad I would think that the

> condenser being bad would mean I don't have spark at all

Condensers can become weak and produce a weak spark . Just because a plug shows spark outside , in open air , does not mean it does the same thing inside the combustion chamber when under a much greater amount of pressure .

It's recommended to have a fat blue spark when outside . If the spark is yellow and anemic it may not spark at all under pressure .

A good strong spark should be able to jump near a half inch or more .

Re: Cursed E50

Thank you! Okay that makes sense to me now. Especially looking back 2 of the 4 plugs in the box of plugs I got were producing yellow spark, but I just thought I had some bad luck with a bad batch of plugs. None of them are able to jump even remotely that far, even the 2 I thought were "good"

With the information provided in this thread all signs are pointing to condenser! I will swap it out tomorrow and keep my fingers crossed that the problem will be resolved!

However, this is a cursed bike, so I'm sure the demon inside will find something else to mess up just to fuck with me.(edited)

Re: Cursed E50

I was having similar problems with an e50 I rebuilt, I changed the condenser, and the points. It ended up being the HT coil.

Re: Cursed E50

Bad condenser was my immediate thought when reading your first post.

Re: Cursed E50

> Alex hernandez Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I was having similar problems with an e50 I rebuilt, I changed the

> condenser, and the points. It ended up being the HT coil.

Yep....I would try the HT coil first. It is easier. If that does not do it swap the condenser.

Re: Cursed E50

Yeah, you really need to rewire a stock stator back in, and ditch that junk you're trying to make work.

Re: Cursed E50

I love the treats cdi with peitcard box. Mine has been going strong for a long time. Was on another bike for an unknown amount of time and then on my daily rider for about 8 months now. A lighting coil did fry for some reason though.

Re: Cursed E50

UPDATE: I have done nothing to it. I changed nothing, gave it a pull for laughs and it started and idled. Then my friend said "good dammit that thing is loud" and hit the kill switch.

It will not start again.

Re: Cursed E50

And the answer is HT coil!

Now I'm back to the issue of autoignition. I believe it to be a jetting issue. Working with the jets I've got, 84 is too lean (white plug on plug chop) and 90 is too rich (bogging out and 4 stroke). Tomorrow I'm going to my buddies part shop to get more jets and continue tuning.

I have also retarded the timing back from full advance after adding a 70cc hi comp head. That adjustment seems to have helped with the heating issues, but I'm still running too hot.

Must investigate further

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