Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

Hi all–

I just recently (4 days ago) bought my first moped, and have already damaged it. The conclusion I've reached from lurking the forums and wiki is that I flooded the carb via starting it incorrectly, and I need to clean it. I have seen the wiki page on repairing a leaky bing, and the wired video on cleaning a carb, but am afraid to go forward because nothing I've seen looks similar at all to the carb on my bike. Can anyone ID this after-market carb by the way it looks in the attached photos? If so, can anyone offer tips about the differences in cleaning this one and a bing? or point me in the direction of a tutorial for cleaning it? I can provide more photos upon request.

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Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

if more info is needed, here it is:

I've been told this bike is pretty heavily modified, the guys at two stroke described it as 'the fastest bike in the tri-state area' before i brought it to baltimore. that's the extent of my knowledge about the modifications.

ran fine in new york. transported to baltimore in the back of a sedan. put gas and oil back in it and ignorantly tried to start it without pulling the lever. i noticed the carb was leaking gas/oil out of the vents in picture one. when i tried to start it properly, it would make a sort of muffled sound and not start. i spilled the excess from the vent and left the bike to dry out a bit. after a few hours of that, it would start and move well but then sputter out and stop after about 20 seconds. this is still the case on the next day. my first instinct is that i need to clean out the carb after doing whatever i did to make it overflow and leak, but if anyone has any input on other potential fixes please let me know. i need the bike running by the 9th of august as i bought it to commute to work from the apartment i'm moving to.

**sorry if double posting like this is disallowed, i tried to edit the OP but was unable to

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

> noah wingren Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> if more info is needed, here it is:

>

> I've been told this bike is pretty heavily modified, the guys at two

> stroke described it as 'the fastest bike in the tri-state area' before i

> brought it to baltimore. that's the extent of my knowledge about the

> modifications.

>

> ran fine in new york. transported to baltimore in the back of a sedan.

> put gas and oil back in it and ignorantly tried to start it without

> pulling the lever. i noticed the carb was leaking gas/oil out of the

> vents in picture one. when i tried to start it properly, it would make

> a sort of muffled sound and not start. i spilled the excess from the

> vent and left the bike to dry out a bit. after a few hours of that, it

> would start and move well but then sputter out and stop after about 20

> seconds. this is still the case on the next day. my first instinct is

> that i need to clean out the carb after doing whatever i did to make it

> overflow and leak, but if anyone has any input on other potential fixes

> please let me know. i need the bike running by the 9th of august as i

> bought it to commute to work from the apartment i'm moving to.

>

> **sorry if double posting like this is disallowed, i tried to edit the

> OP but was unable to

Where in Baltimore are you? That's a Dellorto PHBG carb, super easy to clean. You didn't mess it up or do anything wrong, when you say you tried to start it without the lever I assume you mean you were trying to start it without the clutch which has absolutely no bearing on fuel going to the carb.

I'm moving back to Columbus next Thursday but until then I'm living in Baltimore and would be more than happy to meet up with you this weekend, I could show you how to clean the carb and answer any questions you might have about your bike. PM me and I'll give you my number(edited)

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

You got to love seeing other members reaching out and helping other members, in person.

> Nick Haber Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > noah wingren Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > if more info is needed, here it is:

>

> >

>

> > I've been told this bike is pretty heavily modified, the guys at two

>

> > stroke described it as 'the fastest bike in the tri-state area' before

> i

>

> > brought it to baltimore. that's the extent of my knowledge about the

>

> > modifications.

>

> >

>

> > ran fine in new york. transported to baltimore in the back of a sedan.

>

> > put gas and oil back in it and ignorantly tried to start it without

>

> > pulling the lever. i noticed the carb was leaking gas/oil out of the

>

> > vents in picture one. when i tried to start it properly, it would

> make

>

> > a sort of muffled sound and not start. i spilled the excess from the

>

> > vent and left the bike to dry out a bit. after a few hours of that,

> it

>

> > would start and move well but then sputter out and stop after about 20

>

> > seconds. this is still the case on the next day. my first instinct

> is

>

> > that i need to clean out the carb after doing whatever i did to make

> it

>

> > overflow and leak, but if anyone has any input on other potential

> fixes

>

> > please let me know. i need the bike running by the 9th of august as i

>

> > bought it to commute to work from the apartment i'm moving to.

>

> >

>

> > **sorry if double posting like this is disallowed, i tried to edit the

>

> > OP but was unable to

>

> Where in Baltimore are you? That's a Dellorto PHBG carb, super easy to

> clean. You didn't mess it up or do anything wrong, when you say you

> tried to start it without the lever I assume you mean you were trying to

> start it without the clutch which has absolutely no bearing on fuel

> going to the carb.

>

> I'm moving back to Columbus next Thursday but until then I'm living in

> Baltimore and would be more than happy to meet up with you this weekend,

> I could show you how to clean the carb and answer any questions you

> might have about your bike. PM me and I'll give you my number

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

oh wow thank you! i'll try my best to solve it this week but i'll definitely contact you before the weekend. I'm currently in station north but am moving to bolton hill.(edited)

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

update– i just finished cleaning the carb, it seemed relatively clean to begin with, if anything there was a tiiiiny little something in the idle/ pilot jet. I haven't tried the bike out again yet because it's late but i think i may have discovered the actual issue:

when i twist the throttle, the choke remains closed. I wasn't aware it was supposed to open until i got to the end of the carb-cleaning video i was following along with and the guy mentions it as a test to make sure everything's ok.

could i be correct in assuming that's the issue? what could cause this, and how should i go about correcting it?

thanks ahead of time

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

That’s a lot of gas on and ground!

Did you ride this bike in New York before transporting?

All that gas came from the carb?

Was the petcock off during transportation?

The floats could of been stuck!

There could be a shit load of gas in the crack case!

Why does it look like you looped the two carb overflow vents together with a gasline?(edited)

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

-yes, all the gas came out thru the vents in that plastic air filter.

-yes it ran fine before transport

-fairly certain the petcock was off during transport but i'm interested in knowing what the issue could be if it weren't (cpuld have opened during loading it without us noticing) however tho, we did drain the bike before loading it.

-i'm assuming those little L shaped nozzles on either side are the overflow vents? there was a tube connecting them when i bought it with a massive crack in the bottom, so i replaced it. i'm realizing now based on that comment that maybe the crack was intentional and whoever put that tube there was just trying to make it so that the overflowing gas didnt leak down the side of the carb. should i put another hole in the bottom?

-just cleaned the carb as i said and it was relatively clean already, float and needle were in good condition

-would you mind explaining to me what the crack case is, and what it would mean for it to be full of gas? i'm reaaaally new at this

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

Yes, those vent tubes are definitely not supposed to be connected!

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

He meant crank* case, or the bottom end of the engine. again, those tubes are overflow/breather tubes. Disconnect those (or cut a slit - weird solution but whatever) and make sure your bike isn’t flooded before trying to start it again. You can un-flood a bike by tipping it like you’re trying to do a wheelie in place. This will empty any un-ignited fuel from the cylinder.(edited)

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

> Sean Colvin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, those vent tubes are definitely not supposed to be connected!

I disagree, it looks to me like the carb is for a watercooled setup where those two nipples would normally have coolant routed through them. I think it's good as it's set up, those aren't vent tubes

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

i'll give the bike a tip this afternoon to check and see, but i definitely wasnt getting any drips from the engine when i was tipping the bike to drain out the excess in the carb, and i will say that the tube has remained mostly empty during this whole process.

i'm fairly certain that this is the carb attached if that gives an answer to anyone more knowledgable than me

does anyone have any answers re: the choke not opening when i throttle? it is supposed to do so, que no?

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

update: found the part on the dellorto site, they have it listed as a 'breather elbow'

unfortunately, those words mean nothing to me and i still can't tell if there is supposed to be a tube or not

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

The tubes are supposed to be open to the air, hence "breather." Just cut a notch in the linked tube or cut it in half so they dangle. Some people don't event run tubes. I don't know why "Nick Haber" is fucking with you but he is.

There are 3 types of chokes found on PHBG models- pull choke, cable choke, and lever choke. AFAIK these all have to be operated manually and are not linked to the throttle cable. Better pics of your specific carb and choke setup would help diagnose.

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

oh ok interesting! thank you for the info, i'll put the hole back. there i was thinking i was fixing something lol.

i'll take some clearer pictures after work and upload tonight.

if the choke is manual, does this mean i have to be constantly reaching down and adjusting it while riding? or just that the bike should be able to operate with it either closed the whole time or open the whole time?

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

The purpose of the choke is to help start a cold engine by enriching the air/fuel mixture. You turn it on, start the bike, and once the engine warms up to operating temp, you turn it off. Some bikes don't need choke to start, some do, depends on tuning etc. Once it's running at operating temp you do not need to touch the choke again after you turn it off

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

> Mike Boyd Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The tubes are supposed to be open to the air, hence "breather." Just cut

> a notch in the linked tube or cut it in half so they dangle. Some people

> don't event run tubes. I don't know why "Nick Haber" is fucking with

> you but he is.

Alright, I was mistaken, not fucking with him. On some liquid cooled bikes, like the DT50, the carb has almost identical fittings that the coolant passes through. I've only ever run PHBG 21's and have never seen that on a PHBG. To me it looked like it'd be a fitting used on a scooter or something liquid cooled. Sorry for the misinformation.

As for the choke, it's that lever on the carburetor. You can set it on to start it, but you have to manually move it back by hand to turn it off (unless I'm mistaken, but I've never seen an auto choke release on a PHBG). All the choke does is increase the fuel/air ratio to make it easier to start. You don't adjust it as you're riding or anything.(edited)

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

Oh hahaha I was like... wtf is he talking about, this must be some sick joke. sorry dude!

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

> Mike Boyd Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Oh hahaha I was like... wtf is he talking about, this must be some sick

> joke. sorry dude!

It's all good

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

ok phew well thats a relief. when it was sold to me the guy showed me how to open & close the choke and said to start it closed and keep an eye on it in case it opened while riding, so i'll continue following that direction for now. tonight i'll tip it to check if the crankbox is flooded, and give it a test drive to see if cleaning the carb helped. fingers crossed, will update this evening.

Re: Need guidance on identifying and cleaning carburetor - modified '84 Puch Maxi

noah wingren /

update— after doing the wheelie thing & playing around w starting w choke open and closed it still wasnt starting, had a phonecall with homie who knows mopeds and realized it was literally just the mixture screw was in too far. bike is running fine now, though i'm sure it could use some tuning. thats next in the learning process.

thanks all for the guidance! cheers!

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