If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

n wortham /

Jun 10, 2020 12:03AM

Hey y'all maybe a dumb question here but I'm pretty sure my condenser is bad on my ktm foxi (e50)

I've read that when you add an external condenser you should remove the old one and solder it's wires together. My understanding is that a condenser is a capacitor, so if it fails would it just be letting unlimited current through thus having the same effect as soldering the wires together?

Basically I just don't wanna track down the tools to pull my flywheel if I don't have too :-)

Anyways drop some knowledge on me please

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Trent Anderson /

tanderson78

Jun 10, 2020 12:27AM

By no means an expert here, but you would most likely have to remove the flywheel to get to the wires on the old one OR add a new one, internal or external, so why not take the old one out of the loop anyway? And now that you have the flywheel off and the old cap removed, why not put the new one in the location it's supposed to be?

Yes, an external cap is convenient, but it might get damaged bouncing around or break prematurely if it shorts out.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Todd S /

Go to branch

todds

Jun 10, 2020 02:46AM

Yes. Pull the old one, solder the wires together if you can or connect them securely. install one on the HT coil mount and wire it in. I am not trying to pull my flywheel every time a $4 condenser shits the bed.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

baird co /

bairdco

Jun 10, 2020 03:05AM

No. You don't. Since all three wires (condenser, points, coil) are connected anyway, it's a closed circuit with a dead wire, basically.

Easiest way to mount an external condenser is to bolt the body to the coil ground and connect the wire to the wire that goes to the points.

A lot of vintage motorcycle guys install one there as a backup, unhooked, so if their bike dies on the road, it takes two minutes to hook up the new condenser.

But if you've got the ignition apart, you might as well remove it and connect the points wire to the coil wire.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Aaron Blair /

aaronb

Jun 10, 2020 05:06AM

Are you sure your foxi has an e50? Every one I've seen has a Sachs.

Yes, I am aware they were designed for a Puch engine and used mount adapters to run the Sachs engine. Just curious if you swapped the engine or it came to you that way.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Erik Thalman /

aliendu4

Jun 10, 2020 07:50AM

On puchs I've used two in the system my morini didn't like that and only wanted new one. Lesson is to just wire the new one only and don't worry bout it

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

P D /

pdcomm

Jun 10, 2020 09:09AM

Would be even remotely possible for the old condenser to be shorted ?

Maybe that might just be enough reason to pull the old one ?

I can't think of any part that gets replaced while leaving the old part in place .

Just seems illogical .

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Dirty30 Dillon /

hydra

Jun 10, 2020 10:03AM

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Would be even remotely possible for the old condenser to be shorted ?

>

> Maybe that might just be enough reason to pull the old one ?

>

> I can't think of any part that gets replaced while leaving the old part

> in place .

>

> Just seems illogical .

A condensor can fail to ground, especially an old one that been dead and vibrating in a chassis for 40 years. Pull the old one or risk the electrical gremlins down the road.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Trent Anderson /

tanderson78

Jun 10, 2020 11:02AM

What kind of mileage are people getting on new condensers? I put 5000 miles on my V1 bike back in the late 70's with only the occasional spark plug and clutch bath oil change. It then sat for 15 years and started up in the mid 90's with no problem. It failed from sitting another 10 years in a barn.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Trent Anderson /

tanderson78

Jun 10, 2020 11:05AM

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Would be even remotely possible for the old condenser to be shorted ?

>

> Maybe that might just be enough reason to pull the old one ?

>

> I can't think of any part that gets replaced while leaving the old part

> in place .

>

> Just seems illogical .

Apparently, when you get a kidney transplant, they don't always remove the old one unless They HAVE TO. They run the donor organ in parallel.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Aaron Blair /

aaronb

Jun 10, 2020 11:34AM

Generally, capacitors don't short to ground. They do! But not very often. Bit it is true that it becomes more likely with age/use..like any cap failure...Maybe like once a year I'll find one ruining the bias on a radio, and I work on alotta radios...I run into open and bad esr alot more often...condensers are just caps anyway

It depends on the manufacturing method....for instance, old Bosch condensers were paper/foil. I was told that some old Delcos were mica! Bad juju those get silver migration and get real leaky.

Most aren't electrolytic caps, which short more often. More than paper on foil anyway....which still do! Or hell, maybe I'm wrong and they are electrolytic on some mopeds! Never torn one apart..hmmm

That being said, I don't even buy condensers anymore...my hobbit has been running an axial nichicon 40pf electrolytic for the past 10 years externally mounted no problems. I tried it out, it worked and never replaced it....Pays to have bins of electronic components.

If it's not a big deal to I remove the internal one, then throw on an external for ease of access. Who cares....

If the problem is the condenser, and you don't remove the old one. You'll probably be fine...but, there is always a chance it could be shorted and send you on a goose chase. Sall odds and karma

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

P D /

pdcomm

Jun 10, 2020 11:35AM

> Trent Anderson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Apparently, when you get a kidney transplant, they don't always remove

> the old one unless They HAVE TO. They run the donor organ in parallel.

Learn something new , every day .

Maybe they do that in case the old one decides to start working again ?

Or , does the body simply absorb the old one and dispose of it through normal functions ? ;) (edited)

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

n wortham /

nwortham

Jun 10, 2020 12:45PM

Cool, my plan is to install and external condenser inline with the blue wire to the coil via this tutorial:

install an external condensor on a puch

I guess it depends on how my condesner has failed. there is only one way to find out To be clear I'm trying not to pull my flywheel because I'm away from home out in the county with limited tools and no soldering iron atm. There's some forest roads out here in Calaveras County I'm hoping to ride. Anyways thanks for the info y'all

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

P D /

pdcomm

Jun 10, 2020 12:51PM

Hopefully you won't smell good to the local bear population . ;)

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

baird co /

bairdco

Jun 10, 2020 02:08PM

> Trent Anderson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>

> Yes, an external cap is convenient, but it might get damaged bouncing

> around or break prematurely if it shorts out.

If you think about it, the condenser is bolted to a 400°, vibrating engine, right next to a magnet spinning up to 10-11k rpm.

I think it'll be ok bolted outside to a frame.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Rebel Moby /

rebelmoby

Jun 11, 2020 12:24PM

Remove the old one or at least disconnect it. It is defective, it will not help a situation if it is still attached to the points. It can even continue to cause frustration if it is shorting internally to common when hot because it will continue to do that and give you the "well that is not the problem" false remedy.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

cheetahchrome . /

cheetahchrome

Jun 12, 2020 09:35AM

Yes to Moby. The only time you would leave a faulty condenser in place is if it serves a dual function as in Vespas the condenser body also holds the cam lube oil wick. Just delete the wire.

This vespa has had its yellow wire sniped but it's dead corpse still holds the vital wick for all to see.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Rebel Moby /

rebelmoby

Jun 12, 2020 09:44AM

...you could of at least make its dead corpse look sad...

> cheetahchrome . Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Yes to Moby. The only time you would leave a faulty condenser in place

> is if it serves a dual function as in Vespas the condenser body also

> holds the cam lube oil wick. Just delete the wire.

>

> This vespa has had its yellow wire sniped but it's dead corpse still

> holds the vital wick for all to see.

>

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

cheetahchrome . /

cheetahchrome

Jun 12, 2020 09:49AM

GAAAACCCkk

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

cheetahchrome . /

cheetahchrome

Jun 12, 2020 10:45AM

Rebel you always have to stitch the deads eyes to keep them from popping back open and upsetting the mourners.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Rebel Moby /

rebelmoby

Jun 13, 2020 09:20PM

Hahaha - thue that

> cheetahchrome . Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Rebel you always have to stitch the deads eyes to keep them from popping

> back open and upsetting the mourners.

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

live ɘvil /

themotorhead

Jun 14, 2020 03:19PM

Today I learned that a person could have 3 or 4 kidneys. I agree with the others. If the original condenser is left in circuit and shorted to ground then the whole circuit including the new condenser will be shorted to ground and not work. Remove or isolate the original suspected condenser. (edited)

Re: If replacing condenser do I have to remove the old one?

Frank Bailey /

Go to branch

themechanic

Jun 14, 2020 08:30PM

I just did this on a V1. New internal cap prematurely failed. Even with new external cap it would quit after a while. Removed internal and all is well.

Some of these look perfect. Great prices compared to stock.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/ignition---tune-up-16776/ignition-condenser-12500/456b323592a2?q=ignition+condenser&sort=price+asc (edited)

MOPED ARMY

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