Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

79 e50 hi torque maxi with newly rebuilt original bing 15, techno circuit, metal mesh clugs off the line up to about half throttle until it catches and takes off. won't run at all with no filter. runs poorly with stock snorkel.

15mm grandpa 1 intake

2.17 atomizer

78 jet (would only run with 76 jet on stock snorkel at 3/4 throttle and four strokes at wot)

24 slide

single embossed needle clipped 2nd from top

16x52 gearing

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Drop a double ring needle in there if you have one and see if that helps

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Overpriced Parts /

Welcome to the world of piston port cylinder that have no signal/no vacuum at low rpm that’s why you can’t run it with the filter on

You got to get into the powerband or it will just bog so Tune your clutch with super stiffy springs 3 turns In from flush to get the Revs up, with the higher revs you will be able to run the air filter and lose that horrible Engine blowing low gearing,

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /
IMG_1401.jpg

Really? By low gearing you mean the 52? I could change it to a 45. I had it running very good with no air filter, a 76 jet, double embossed needle, and slide from a clone, but once I got the 2.17, single embossed needle, and 24 slide (the spec you gave me for bing 15 with performance exhaust and mesh) I put that on. So, just so we are clear you are saying my best option is to pull the clutch and put in stiffer springs? Can I use new blue springs? I am saving the extra stiff springs for the 65cc airsal bike which is where this carb is going once I get it tuned on the test bike. I have rebuilt another original bing 15 that I will put on this bike. I figured it was easier to tune a carb on a know good bike before putting it on my kitted bike. Thank you for your help. Picture of clone slide attached.

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Tuning your carb on one bike, then switching that carb over to a different bike with a different cylinder and pipe sounds like a recipe for protracted frustration. Wouldn’t you be changing all the variables all over again?

I’d really think about putting the carb you want, with its stock internals, on the bike you want. If I remember right, that bike has an Airsal, Estoril, and metal mesh filter, which isn’t some crazy mercurial setup. Check for and correct any air leaks, set the timing at 16-17 degrees and point gap to .4-.5mm, and then try out your jets starting with like an 80 and moving down one at a time until you’re not four-stroking at WOT. Go down one more jet size and monitor your temps. If they’re getting up around 350 then go back up. Ride for a while at lower throttle settings and monitor your temps there. If you four-stroke or see the temps climbing, move the needle up or down on the clip one notch at a time to lean out or richen the pre-WOT mixture.

Depending on performance when that process is complete, you might want to get back to 16x45 gearing and use just the front sprocket to favor low or high end since it’s so much easier to change the front than the rear. And depending on low end when that process is complete, you can tackle the clutch. It’s not hard and we can walk you through it. Then you can look at your squish and cylinder head and gasket to see if you can make gains there.

But one thing at a time. Air leaks, timing, and jetting for your setup.

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

Thanks Chinatown. I rebuilt two original bing 15 carbs (2.17, 24 slide, single needle, 74-78 jets) so I could put one on the airsal, but i wanted to make sure they "worked" on a known good bike so I could understand what is happening when I put it on the airsal. If I keep a 15 on the test bike, I still have the low end problem. If Overpriced is right, it might be worth a try. I assume I should test the different clip settings before tightening the clutch springs on the bike, or replacing them with blue springs, or extra stiff kickstart springs...

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Chinatown Kicks Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Tuning your carb on one bike, then switching that carb over to a

> different bike with a different cylinder and pipe sounds like a recipe

> for protracted frustration. Wouldn’t you be changing all the variables

> all over again?

This.

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

> mike houlihan Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If I keep a

> 15 on the test bike, I still have the low end problem.

It's a moped, man, low end problems are part of the deal. You can solve or mitigate them, but not with any magic carb setting alone.

> I assume I should test the different

> clip settings before tightening the clutch springs on the bike, or

> replacing them with blue springs, or extra stiff kickstart springs...

Just to be clear, the needle clip settings determine the fuel/air mixture at lower throttle positions, not speed off the line. Jet the carb for temps and performance at WOT, then adjust the needle for temps and performance at pre-WOT.

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Overpriced Parts /

> mike houlihan Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks Chinatown. I rebuilt two original bing 15 carbs (2.17, 24 slide,

> single needle, 74-78 jets) so I could put one on the airsal, but i

> wanted to make sure they "worked" on a known good bike so I could

> understand what is happening when I put it on the airsal. If I keep a

> 15 on the test bike, I still have the low end problem. If Overpriced is

> right, it might be worth a try. I assume I should test the different

> clip settings before tightening the clutch springs on the bike, or

> replacing them with blue springs, or extra stiff kickstart springs...

Forget about stock or blue springs kickstart springs are what is needed with a kit and pipe to pull into the power

Forget about putting a 15mm bing on a bike on a Stock non-kitted non-tuned test bike because a 15mm bing needs More revs For Venturi effect Then a smaller carburetor

One of the first things you do when you kit a e50 is Clutch springs to raise the RPM to get into the pipe for good take off, to pull you up on hills and kickdown in corners

Most times run Higher gear then stock at least 18x45 or 16x40 (which =same ratio) to keep hi speed revs down especially with stock crank and internals, stock or blue springs are nothin, run stiff kickstart ones always,

A Moped performance build is no different than doing a performance build that you do on a car that you take to the strip, you Increase the cubic inch, put on a bigger carburetor/increase horsepower to the motor then redo the transmission replacing the torque converter to High Stall Speed one, then you rework the rear end/change the axle ratio

You got to do it all not just part, it will never really run good if you don’t

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

Extremely helpful. Thank you

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

Very very helpful. Thank yiu

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

Progress! Slapped the bing 15 that I had been testing on the 65cc airsal e50. Ran it for 15 minutes and max temps were 346. Most of the ride low 300s. Boggy off the start like Overpriced said without stiffer springs. If I ran at WOT it ran fine. If I ran less than WOT it would intermittently cut out, especially at less than 3/4 throttle. Seemed like it wanted more fuel. Going to recheck the carb and see if there is any debris in there and thinking I may need to replace the fuel filter as it has captured some black specs. Anything else it could be?

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

What kind of filter do you have? Usually you can just blast out the gunk from the other side.

What’s happening when it cuts out? Is it the same thing that was happening a few weeks ago?

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /
IMG_1404.jpg
IMG_1404.jpg

Not really similar to what happened a few weeks ago. That was more if a die to nothing and manual restart although it did come back before totally dying initially. Later it became a hard die. These are shorter in duration like the engine dies a bit and then comes right back when i lay off the throttle a touch and then get back on it again. if i pin it at wot, it will hold it there. only thing i can think of is i am sucking the bowl dry and there is a gunk in there that moves once i lay off the throttle and the bowl fills again. Or i still don't have good spark in time. And it's screaming freakin loud. I'd take a video, but i'm holding on for dear life with the acceleration. this is the filter...

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Ok so if that filter is like a hundred others you can just shoot some carb cleaner through the other side of the filter and clean it out. Check the jet and make sure it hasn’t vibrated loose, and blast that for good measure, too. Check the float needle and the hinge it’s on to make sure it isn’t getting hung up somewhere and blocking fuel flow.

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

wasnt doing this on the test bike...but the kit draws fuel differently i imagine

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

Banjo hole was gummed up. How did I miss that? Ran very good but still have a fuel delivery issue at less than full throttle. Will run it dry and check the petcock and change the filter. Getting closer. Need to do the clutch work. The 16/40 revs too hi. Thank you for your help. Max temp 303

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

More progress, but still not there. Cuts out ever so slightly at lower rpm, 30 mph or less. If i’m on the throttle it’s fine. This is what I found when i drilled down into my fuel supply. Cleaned it all out and the video shows what the low rpm sputtering is like. As overpriced said, I think the 14t and stock springs may be the culprit. Hoping to be able to cruise at 25 to 30 without sputtering. I don’t want to ride 35-45

D8CEF8EC-A357-49B9-A390-D76D0C0B102D.jpeg

everywhere

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

Not sure how stock springs or gearing would make your engine sputter, which is usually electrical or carburetion. Are you sure that’s not just four-stroking in the mid-throttle range? Like what happens if you lean out the needle setting?

Re: Bing 15 Fuckery

roots to wings /

Listened to the advice and went back to 14mm real bing carb for non-kitted bike.

Replaced difficult to tune and leaky clone with used bing 15mm carb (glad to have found one) on kitted bike (65cc airsal) and finally got it dialed in with 14/40 gearing (for now), stock clutch springs (for now), metal mesh filter, 78 jet, 2.17 atomizer, single embossed needle clipped 3 down from top.

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