Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

Woah, Yeah it does look off center. I had not noticed that.... I didn't take off the head today but I got the clutch side opened up and learned some things! Here are some pics:

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pic #1: The first set of washer and circlip was in the right place and order but just sitting loosely in place... the circlip wasn't snapped down into a groove, just hanging there with a couple mm of wiggle room.

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pic #2 and #3: Second set of washer and circlip were also seemingly in the right place and in order but hanging loosely, circlip not snapped into any groove...

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If everything is shifted a few mm off center, maybe the (i'm not sure what it is called, the long cylinder in the middle of these pics with a thread on the end that the clutch and everything was on) is hiding partially inside the engine so the notches where the circlips are meant to snap into place are hidden under that bearing?

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

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pic #4: The gold bushing inside the clutch bell is stuck in place. Not sure if that is a problem. In other videos on youtube I saw it slide right out when the bell was removed.

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Pic #5: Here you can see that the washer fits up against the bearing but there is no room for the circlip. There is just enough space for it.

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In Pic #6 I tried to put the circlip on and it fits but there's not a nice notch for it on there and now there's no room for the washer.

There was no woodruff key in the inner slot. The key for the outer slot was sitting loose in the bottom of the clutch.

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

There is no key for the inner slot. The outer key is for your clutch and is definitely needed. The copper sleeve does not need to come out. I have not had any that come out easily.

The circlips should definitely be clipping into the grooves. If not the bearings need to be pressed in a little more so that they can fit. Getting the bearings pressed in where they should will also help the alignment issue with your crank.

The long part of your crank that is tapered and threaded on both ends is called the crank shaft.

You for sure need to split the cases and address the crank issues. Honestly it is not much more than an hour of work.

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

Awesome, Thanks Jay. Do I need any specialty tools? I don't have an impact driver which I saw people using to get the nuts that hold the case together off. And I'll need to order something like ultra grey to seal it back up when I'm done, right?

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

You can get most of the bolts out with hand tools. Seems like there's always one or two that you really need to go ham on, but PB Blaster and heat will help. Hopefully the heads aren't too stripped.

There are several aftermarket cranks available, and some need to be shimmed differently from the stock ones. You'll prob have a better idea once you get yours out and can see where all the circlip grooves are and how the current shims fit in. You'll also be able to see if just that clutch-side bearing came loose or if the whole assembly somehow shifted over. Either way, you're prob looking at new bearings and seals -- not hard to install, but there's one bearing that usually requires a bearing puller to remove.

Yeah, you need some kind of gasket maker to seal the cases back up when you're done. Yamabond seems to be favored here, but I've used Permatex Ultra Gray with no problems. Also, you got the clutch off fine, but do you have a puller for the flywheel on the other side?

My experience with that brass bushing is that it spins freely in the clutch bell and on the crank, but maybe just the latter is good enough? I honestly don't know.

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

This is the "crank walk" that happens on e50s. If this was my bike I would anticipate at least new crank bearings and seals, definitely new circlips for the crankshaft, and probably a new crank if this one is stock. New crank typically needs different shimming so I'd anticipate that as well.

Sorry jay, but you do NOT need the woodruff key for the clutch. The taper of the crank shaft holds the clutch in place. Many aftermarket clutches do not even have cutaways for a woodruff key. Doesn't hurt anything to use it though.

When the brass bushing no longer spins freely in the clutch bell that is a sign that things got sloppy and out of tolerance and the bushing or bell (or both) has now worn badly. I've seen people run them and on a stock bike it's probably ok but I don't personally recommend it.

Usually in motors with these symptoms the starter plate is also all wallered out on the center hole where the thrust pin engages, and the clutch bell notches that hold the starter clutch plate in place are badly worn. If all that is also the case I usually replace the whole assembly- bell, bushing, starter plate. (edited)

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

Thank you all so much for all the help. You guys are amazing.

Looks like whoever tried to rebuild this before me did use way too much sealant, it really got all up into a lot of places it shouldn't have...

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To save money I am thinking I will clean out the sealant, make sure everything is there and in order, and just put it back together with the parts it has as long as they look decent. My impression is that whoever rebuilt it was never able to get it running after they did so.

Thoughts?

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

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This circlip slot was hidden under the bearing. I heated it up a little with a torch and then used my seatpost and a hammer to pound the inner ring of the bearing until it sat flush with the lip on the crankshaft where it gets thicker. Now everything sits more centered in the case and there is room for the circlip to sit next to the bearing there.

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Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

Moped Lar (OFMC) /

I would at least change out the seals.

> Marco AKA Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you all so much for all the help. You guys are amazing.

>

> Looks like whoever tried to rebuild this before me did use way too much

> sealant, it really got all up into a lot of places it shouldn't have...

>

> To save money I am thinking I will clean out the sealant, make sure

> everything is there and in order, and just put it back together with the

> parts it has as long as they look decent. My impression is that whoever

> rebuilt it was never able to get it running after they did so.

>

> Thoughts?

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

I would at the VERY least change out the circlips. And don't be surprised if the crank walks again. Adjust starter clutch lever for minimum pressure needed to engage clutch to help prevent too much lateral pressure when engaging

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

Agreed that you prob want to replace the seals. They’re a little flexible and sometimes you see some little part where they’re slightly out of round from being pressed into the case. You’ll have to remove the bearing you just repositioned, and that likely means replacing it, too, but you’ve come this far and you’ve got it open — how hard would you kick yourself if you had to do it all over again?

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

I hear you guys. I'm gonna replace the circlips and the two seals that are easily accessible and leave the third just cuz I don't have a good way to get that bearing off and the bearing and seal both look good to me. If I have to split the case all over again it is what it is lol

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

> Mike Boyd Wrote:

> Adjust starter clutch lever for

> minimum pressure needed to engage clutch to help prevent too much

> lateral pressure when engaging

Definitely going to do this ^ I didn't realize that lever is strong enough to shift everything like that.

Re: Piston Hard to Move in Cylinder Too Much Resistance

It wouldn’t be in ideal conditions.

Judging by the execution of that previous rebuild, its hard to know what kind of abusive technique was used to seat those bearings.

Possibly a flathead screwdriver and carpenter hammer was used to side-to-side wobble/bang the bearing onto the crank.

Maybe its all wallered out now.

Save yourself another headache and just put all new stuff into that case. If, you can’t afford much, see if someone has a usable stock crank they will let go for cheap.

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