2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

The person that gets closest to my fuel/oil ratio calculators recommended ratio wins a $25 credit towards any of my 2 stroke spreadsheet calculators. Just list your max RPM (or engine size and type riding and I’ll estimate the max RPM), type of cylinder cooling (air or water), and which oil you use from this list:

Amalie - SynPlus

Bel-Ray - SL-2, MC-1, H1-R

Klotz - BeNOL, Techniplate TC-W3

Motul - Scooter Expert, 510, 710, 800 Off Road, 800 Road Racing, Kart Grand Prix

Maxima - Scooter Pro, Super M, Formula K-2, Premium 2, Castor 927

Amsoil - Dominator, Saber

Repsol - Moto Racing, Moto Off Road

Shell - Advance Ultra

PJ1 - Goldfire Pro

Red Line - AllSport

Yamaha - Yamalube 2R

Lucas semi-synthetic

Royal Purple HP 2-C

Schaeffer Supreme

How does my oil ratio calculator work? It uses the oils viscosity in combination with the change on it that the estimated upper cylinder temp (estimated by max RPM and type of cylinder cooling) causes and figures out a ratio that results in a target diluted viscosity (diluted by gasoline). This ratio is usually very close to what oil manufacturers recommend.

“Viscosity is the single most important physical property of a lubricant. It is a crude measure of a lubricant's molecular constitution from the standpoint of hydrocarbon chain size. Viscosity determines film thickness and film strength.” http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28956/lubricant-viscosity-index

“Viscosity of a fluid is a measure of its resistance to gradual deformation by shear stress or tensile stress.” http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/dynamic-absolute-kinematic-viscosity-d_412.html

“Viscosity is very important because it affects the oil's ability to reduce friction and transfer heat.”

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/what-is-viscosity.php

“An oils first line of defense is its viscosity. The ability of the oil film to prevent contact between the rings and the cylinder is a function of an oils viscosity. Generally speaking, the more viscous or thicker an oil, the greater load it will carry.”

http://www.aijiuyujia.com/best-2-stroke-motorcycle-oil.pdf

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

Here's the list of 2 stroke calculators: http://www.dragonfly75.com/moto/calculators.html

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

oil viscosity in a two stroke doesn't work the same way it does in a plain bearing. By the way you're talking about it it sounds like you're referring to hydrodynamic lubrication, rolling element bearings and piston rings (definitely the most important thing to keep lubed) are boundary or mixed mode lubrication, where the film strength and metallic wear additives have way more impact on performance than viscosity.

there are a couple people who have used pressure/heat test rigs to publish real world info. one dude on a snowmobile forum really did a nice job wth a heated cylinder and piston test rig at high RPM.(edited)

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

There's always many ways to theoretically consider any subject but the final theory needs to be close to real life results, and my calculator does just that. Without a doubt an oils final viscosity (diluted with gas) is the #1 determinant of needed ratio, depending on upper cylinder temperature. Of course you are free to disagree and I support your right to do so but after so much study and tweaking of formulas and how they compare to real life I am very convinced this is the way to go. Of course an engine oil can have extra additives to improve lubricity which would allow you to use a little bit less oil but it is the final viscosity that determines the baseline fuel/oil ratio. You can add more oil than the baseline though as long as it doesn't cause spooge. But this calculator determines the baseline ratio.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

TLDR

50:1

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

TLDR? what oil is that?

and whats your max RPM?

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Overpriced Parts /

Yeah you’re talking race bikes, shifter motorcycles bla bla!

Old pedal moped vintage mopeds basically 50 to 1 with good oil works fine,

This is moped army not shifter/race bike army !

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

I'm talking any engine at any RPM under any riding conditions. and any transmission, even no-gears like the motorized bicycles.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

"The ability of the oil film to prevent contact between the rings and the cylinder is a function of an oils viscosity. Generally speaking, the more viscous or thicker an oil, the greater load it will carry.”

http://www.aijiuyujia.com/best-2-stroke-motorcycle-oil.pdf

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Jack Rutherford /

Motul 800 2T

10,800 rpm

64cc

air

57:1

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

For your ride my calculator says 800 2T Off Road should be 38:1 and 800 2T Road Racing should be 45:1

Send me a message if you want the spreadsheet. :-)

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

I run a secret blend of Hellmans real mayo and the tears from a pregnant mermaid. 100 to 1

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

I use walmart 2 stroke oil Im poor

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Dont use amsoil! That's why I deserve the gift card.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

I agree. Amsoil is the last oil company I would recommend.

But this thread isn't about who's good or bad, only about fuel/oil ratios.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

Examples of my calculators trueness:

fully synthetic oil:

Motul recommends their 800 Off Road be used at 50:1 and my calculator shows its ratio to be 51:1 for a water cooled engine reving to 12,000 RPM.

I choose 12,000 for extreme use because that is what a modern 125cc revs to. And the oil manufacturers usually recommend a racing oil at a ratio that will protect an extreme motocross engine such as a 125cc.

synthetic/mineral blends:

Golden SX2 is recommended at 32:1 and my calculator shows that same ratio for a water cooled engine up to 12000 RPM.

Golden Spectro is recommended at 42:1 and my calculator shows exactly that for a water cooled engine up to 12000 RPM.

mineral oil:

Spectro 2T is not advertised as a racing oil but something that can be used in oil injector systems so we can say it is for up to 10,000 RPM at the recommended ratio of 32:1 which is exactly what my calculator shows for it at 10,000 RPM.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Are you try to sell stuff? You can not use the oil calculator unless you make a purchase.

You says its free if we email you though? Why don't you just post it on your website

they thin a lot of two stroke oils for oil injector pumps? Why don't they just make different weights? Its not like the engine need more oil they could improve the engines oiling abilities

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Gabe Mustane /

Rocco what oil do you use?

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

Rocco, it clearly says on my site that I give it away to anyone that asks for it. I offered it that way so I'd know how many people realized it was worthwhile. Just to gauge how people in general accept or reject a new idea.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

> Michael Forrest Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Just to gauge how people in general accept or reject

> a new idea.

So , you're really attempting to conduct a social study .

In that respect , A moped site , would produce some interesting results .

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

In general I'm surprised at how much resistance to change people have. But actually that is somewhat good because the majority of people being like that maintain stability in society. If everyone were like me then there would be too much change and too much instability which could crash the economy.

So progress happens slowly which is good. But it's hard on us progressives that want rapid change. Look at what happened to people like Galileo. His proof that the sun did not revolve around the Earth was counter to what everyone believed so they punished him for trying to rock the boat. But truth always wins out in the end. Now everyone believes correctly that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

I'm using a polini 64cc with motol 800 road at 45:1 and revving to the moon at 11k.

How close should am I?

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

> Michael Forrest Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> In general I'm surprised at how much resistance to change people have.

> But actually that is somewhat good because the majority of people being

> like that maintain stability in society. If everyone were like me then

> there would be too much change and too much instability which could

> crash the economy.

>

> So progress happens slowly which is good. But it's hard on us

> progressives that want rapid change. Look at what happened to people

> like Galileo. His proof that the sun did not revolve around the Earth

> was counter to what everyone believed so they punished him for trying to

> rock the boat. But truth always wins out in the end. Now everyone

> believes correctly that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Earth's flat bro.

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

pretty close Eddie. it says 44:1

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

>>>taykoff [s2m] /

Amsoil Saber

10,600 rpm

74cc Gilardoni Italkit

air

80:1

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Dirty30 Dillon /

I have no idea wtf this thread is about.

But if you calculator's numbers are "accurate" according to what the factory's claim, why not just follow the factory's recs?

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Overpriced Parts /

> Eddie K Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> >

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

>

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

>

>

>

> Earth's flat bro.

Yup the dude is making a big deal out of nothing !

Maybe to profit or maybe just cause he believes in some kind of scientific magic!

I’ve had mopeds and several dozen Japanese 90-350cc enduro bikes for 42 years and during that time many were oil injected and many times had just junk 30w regular motor oil/non 2 cycle oil in the oil tank when I purchased them they and ran fine

I also had an ultra tuned 250 Elsinor 4 speed Motocrosser that made near 40 HP that

I ran bellray 50 to 1, As well as husky and mako race enduro/hair scramble bikes that never let me down even going through a flooded river then turning them upside down and getting all the water out of the crankcase!

Having the exact oil or carburetor size for exact RPM just pdon’t happen because unless you keep it at that small narrow powerband and that exact rpm,

but it’s not like that !

On my bikes especially the auto clutch mopeds I have a large range of rpm/and velocities that my bikes go through so how can carb size and type of oil change with it !

New cars and bikes have fuel injection which is Precise and a good thing,

But carbureted vehicle of any kind is not perfect with the jetting and velocity throughout the range and actually for best power should be more than the optimal fuel air mixture (rich)

All you have to do is be close,

And like I said it’s an art not a science, it can never be a science with the carburetor and cannot be calculated perfect?

Trust me I have more two wheel 2stroke experience then the OP this who is making this post ever will!

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

taykoff, my calculator says 35:1

Dirty, only a few oil manufacturers give any specific guidance so my calculator helps you with all the other oils.

Ken have you been into bikes for 45 years like I have?

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

> Michael Forrest Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If everyone were like me then

> there would be too much change and too much instability which could

> crash the economy.

A misanthropic dream of mine; a dark age every now and again ensures the survival of the intelligent. But I digress...

I dig what you're attempting - which is pretty ambitious; are you factoring in temp of the system, ambient temp, other variables like that? Think there's a way to test results (sans running a system to failure lol)?

Oh yeah - the reason I posted - so Saber is for lawn-mowers - no question there. But what about Dominator? I've been running that for years now; any reason why I should switch?

Re: 2 STROKE ENGINE OIL CONTEST

Michael Forrest /

I just don't like Amsoil. I think they're dishonest so I wouldn't personally trust anything they sell. But I could be wrong.

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