A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

Hi,

I have a Tomos luxe (same as a quadro) and i have attempt to improve the torque of my wheelbarrow because it's f*cking sloppy on hill climbing. By sloppy i mean she yells like a mother giving birth to angage the seconde gear at a poor 22Kmh/13Mh and when she get it, faling slowly in pain to 16Kmh/9Mh and re-engage the first gear ... (etc)

So what hapenned ? at this time my build was;A35 / Airsal 49cc cylinder / DMP hight compression head / Delle Horto SHA 16:16 / Homoet exhaust / opened airbox / stock clutch and spring / ratio front 26 rear 24.

I search like a fool to find a solution because okay it's a 50cc and i weight 85kg/187lb

but if a can't climb a hill it's realy problematique for me, i live in Wallonie a place in Belgium where the name literally means "f*cking HILLY LAND" .

So i make some test, the only thing a don't touch a this point is the clutch so i dig in but it's realy not easy to find clear explanation about the string streng etc ?

I get off the cork of the clutch segments and i replace it whith leather chrome tanned to try getting more friction (not a joke! i read that on a page of this forums) But this was a huge fail some piece of leather runaway and now my gear box is full of mashed leather. (you can see the result below before that messed)

The friction is not the point now (i just get new shoes with cork it do the job at least) what i need is help with the string clutch, i change it first with 25lb on first and 20 on second (like they said on some treatland comentaries) it's was messy so i invert them and nwo i can get a "better" 25-30Kmh loop in hill start (15-18Mh) and much better result if i have some speed before engaging hill, but it's not enough. If i dont have speed to engage a hill it's still dangerous to drive so slowly ?! (i try this with a 26 and a 22 rear sprocket but only the 24 do the best job)

How get a real got torque on this silly guy ? any idea ?

thanks in advance.(edited)

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Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

what kind of oil were you running? in the trans?

never heard of using leather in a wet clutch setup

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Does the airsal 50cc kit have a intake window in the piston? Also the homoet pipe is a top speed pipe not a torque monster. I'd run a circuit pipe if you have a lot of hills to climb.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Stock exhaust, 70cc airsal, 26x26 gearing. No hill will be able to stop you.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

How what a nice lifefull forum !

@ Aaron Blair

I use ipone box2 gearbox oil, and yes it suprise me also but the leather give an incredibly strong grip ... so much that the epoxy bi-composante i use to bond it juste melt ...

@ Stephen Simmons

Pretty sure no windows in mine cylinder (good observation watson !), what you mean by a "circuit " pipe ?

@ Daniel

Yes for sure but what top speed you get? Because i won't go to much fast ... in my country i can have some serious probleme for changing a moped power, i change the carburator and pipe but it's enough to get in trouble with the "order's force" if i ride like a crazy "motherfuckerteenager".

And i forget something i have in stock a 30 lb spring clutch ... maybe a good idea to try a first 30 lb and second 25lb ? (intake window look great also)

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

26x26 gearing should still get you over 60kmh.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

The 50cc kits with no intake window in the piston didn't make the power they should have. You really need to cut the window in the piston. Like this on the intake side of the piston skirt.

tomos-alukit-70cc-piston-targa-2.jpg

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

Hum yes i see, but after some verification there is window in mine actual cylinder but a little one (first pic) and i find a nice cylinder for cheap $ with much bigger window (2nd pic)

And about the 70cc kit i think Besides that has maybe not so much top speed with a stock exhaust it's too much for a tomos, you know there is a lot of post where piece are just broken and clutch exploded or whatever, so maybe it's overpowered for such a tiny 2stroke? So yes i want more torque but i won't do heavy maintenance each 500 Km or worse, do a repair ... (and spend hunderd buck for stock piece)

tomos-zuiger-a35-airsal-50cc-1-0-1-1-900x675.png
tomos-zuiger-meteor-38mm-0-1-1-900x675.jpg

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Chöschi21 C.K. /

Yes, Tomos 2 Speed Automatics, or for that matter, most 2 Speed Automatic Moped's aren't really reliable when making a lot of Power, specially when going up steep hills. But you should be good if you keep the rpm's down and don't push it.

But also, modifying Tomos Bikes with in Frame Tanks isn't really a good idea anyways, they aren't stable at all.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Stock pipes are great as long as they don't have a small header, they are nice for the sleeper build. The stock a3 exhaust performs better than most expansion chambers for the average tuner.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Ok here is the skinny on the Tomos clutches. Use vibraam rubber for pads. If possible slot an a35's clutch hubs to use a3 shoes.

Replace with pivot pin in back so it opens toward rotation instead of away...swap out your tranny fluid with marvel mystery oil and c astrol atf at 4/1. The downshift is. Controlled by the internal countershaft Kickstarter cage and associated question mark spring.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

lots of folks have had success with the leather, perhaps the glue you used to bond it wasn't the right stuff?

i use a commercial brake lining product that i get from McMaster-Carr, its actually made in germany so i'm sure you can get it from somewhere in europe. i use a 3m epoxy called scotch weld 420.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

Okay thanks for this variety of answer, one last question. What about the clutch spring?

I buy a set of 20-25-30 lbs spring to change my stock one. so what is the best ratio to get ? for a gently modified engine ? and more importent is the 1st or the 2nd clutch need the stiffer spring, because it's unclear.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

You can keep the oem springs and use the viscosity of the tranny fluid to dial in where it will actually engage. Thick hi rpms. Thin quick engagement.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

19mm dellorto or mukini carb will solve your problems

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Overpriced Parts /

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Stock pipes are great as long as they don't have a small header, they

> are nice for the sleeper build. The stock a3 exhaust performs better

> than most expansion chambers for the average tuner.

I must not be an average tuner because the stock A3 exhaust even with with the big header still doesn’t produce nowhere near the horsepower and torque as the cheapest expansion chamber known to man!

The only stock non chamber exhaust that is ok is a puch 2hp magnum exhaust pipe and that still needs a few mods and it is actually a chamber pipe of some sorts,

Yes safari, derby, Avante Garelli clone and other bikes come with an actual chamber pipe I’m talking non chamber pipes

Ya I rode a tomos with like a 30-35 inch foot straight pipe and it blasted and I had a 3 cylinder 85hp outboard motor boat that only had a 3 inch long port coming from the cylinders right off the engine so exhaust at all no nothing and it blasted but if a exspandion chamber was put on it it would be 2x hp,

a expansion chamber exhaust is a supercharger/turbo charger for a two stroke and no one will tell me otherwise,

If you want more torque have a long header but always have a expansion chamber with a two stroke engine

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

I dunno boss and jammy pipes are pretty shitty! My magnum performs better with the stock pipe over the peoples pipe. I'm not a big fan of mlm's pipe designs. The new proma they made for v1 are super rad though.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

So i test a 20-30lbs (2nd-1st) clutch setting and i get a good torque on hill, shifting at 18-24 mph but ... it yell as fuck. And when i get on flat what a blast! It was nice but i get so muche higer rpm that will be noot good for my baby (sob).

Conclusion: it work but it's not the good way if you want to keep your moped alive more than a 500 miles.

Know the question is how to keep lower rpm, because it's definitely the higer one breaking clutch shoes and everthing else (shame on them! buu).

Is a 65cc kit with a tinyer carb (like a 14-12 sha or a 14 phva maybe) and a Stock pipe is a way to keep lower rpm's ? ( and for sure somthing like a stokish clutch spring setting)

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Sprockets Dita Edie sprockets gear ratios

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Yes, a 64cc kit and smaller carb with a stock pipe will make it very quiet and torquey. Also I think the cork clutches grip a lot better than kevlar or leather. Better yet are the friction material on the tomos shoes from doscycles.com.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

Okay after all i don't have plenty of choice so i try this in a month or something but is there realy a goog idea to put a stockish exhaust on 65cc ? I fear the gas have not enought place to go out the combustion chamber and heat the cylinder to much, that maybe can generate a stuck piston. (wich is absolutly not what we want right ?)

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

The old model a3 exhaust that has a 22mm header.

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

Ho men i just discover than a A55 have Bigger transfer (give that power) it is possible to put one on a A52 cilynder ?

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

Nicolas Smolders /

Okay forget that if A35 and A55 have same A52 crankcase it's not exactly the same.

moped-army-d0eecc999cc432e04bc2e9b91b406a0e.jpg

Re: A35 torque improvement, WTF is going on ?

no thats not really true, most A35 cases do not have that extra material around them.

i dunno what you guys got in europe but in the USA the only a35 cases with that extra meat are on some very late model A35's like the 2003-06 revival.

myrons' secret decoder ring

either way more transfer size isn't going to make much difference here, the transfer size only becomes a limiting factor at high rpm.

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