Peugeot build update and Questions

Hey there folks!!! So the bike is finally together and broken in. It rips! for those who dont know my set up, I have a 50 airsal kit, 19mm phbg (chinese version), mallosi intake, athena reeds, stock pipe, le partie cdi, stock cases (port matched), and stock vario. I went ahead and welded up a top tube, powderd it blue, and just ironed out tons of other little details. finally came up with an inexpensive and extremely bright led setup. I will try to find some good pictures to attach...

So here's my situation got the cheapo carb and mounted it, tried to tune it and it was all over the place. did more research and found that it had the four stroke atomizer in it. replaced the atomizer, needle, and atomizer bushing with the proper ones from treats and was able to tune the bike in pretty close. Heres what I dont understand. when I start from a stop and accelerate full throttle everything seems right. as the rpm slowly increase, it hits a point where it suddenly starts to lose power and four stroke or maybe its just missing. If i dial the throttle back to about 5/8 open, it clears up and I start to gain more speed and rpms. I figured it must be jetting so I downjetted from my 112 main jet to a 108 which was the next closest size I have. that seemed to lean though because most of my power went away and it was super sluggish. whats going on here? Is this a jetting problem. Is it timing or a CDI even? I am not sure where to go from here. I am getting a solid 35-38 mph but I feel like even with the stock pipe its got more if I can get my top end problem sorted out.

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Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

more pics...

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Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

another one...

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and the final thRee....

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Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

At first I also thought downjet, but you might wanna try another pipe if you think it's running lean now

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

So yeah... I did go back to the larger 112 jet because it was better than the lean 108, and it is definitely more powerfull all around but what's weird is the bike seems to be jetted and running great till it gets to like I dont know, maybe 8-12 thousand rpm and then starts missing or four striking or something.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Ilia Edouardovich /

No way you’re hitting 12k with that stock pipe. Probably not even on the stand. Get an expansion chamber pipe, run a trial run and report back. FYI the MVT for Peugeot looks fuckin tits, and a guy I know is hitting 62 with that on his Doppler kit.

And seriously, the stock variator? I know people here love them, and they do have their place with mild builds, but if you want high rpm then get an ER3 for much better all around performance.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Ok zazdarovye, you answered a question that i didn't ask. To date I have been using a cheap hour meter/tachometer and was kinda doubting that I was hitting those high if rpms but no one ever said they sounded unrealistic and this is my second performance build so I didn't really know what to expect as far as rpm go. I'll stop throwing out those bad numbers... my bad....

So as for an expansion chamber, im planning to weld my own in the future. I am a welding student at a tech college so I should be able to make a pretty nice pipe granted my growing skills and expensive welders. And the variator. That is a very good point about the er3 but right now I'm just not there yet. I want this thing to run right and work well for a while before I go spend money on that. Kinda the one thing at a time philosophy.

Thanks for your input man!

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

there is a really common issue with the stock engine mounting spring where it starts to shake at about 10-11k and foams up the carb causing it to starve for fuel. super frustrating but its more prevalent on 70cc bikes and it really only happens above 10k which i'm pretty sure you aren't hitting.

the problem you're going to have no matter what you do is that the kit has big timing and blowdown and its not going to work good on a stock pipe no matter what you do, so its going to be really frustrating trying to tune the carb.

based on what it sounds like you are describing, it could be your needle. i'm not sure what one to suggest but usually the w7 and w9 work pretty well for the AU262 atomizer. Also now that your are fine tuning you might need smaller variation in jets. PHBG's are very picky, I almost always end up tuning them in within +/- 1 jet size. yours might need a 109, 110, 111 to be truly happy, but mess with the needle first.

ah phbg's on Pugs... what an adventure. i am sticking with a SHA on mine.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Stock pipe will only give you regulatory compliance for noise and speed restrictions. Derestricted it will give you a little more noise and speed but not much of the latter as it only provides containment and not controlled reversion waves.

Get a goodly expansion chamber and ball joint, check for restrictions in both and bash out the coins. The pipe will give you a more robust power band that you will feel as the reversion wave is starting to overstuff the combustion chamber.

Make sure your ignition timing is correct.

Next - I would suggest to index the throttle on the barz and tune the carb at idle (up to 1/8), off idle (up to 1/4), midrange (1/4-3/4) and top (3/4-wot). Make sure the twist grip will deliver wot at the carb before even starting to tune. Get the engine heat soaked and use fresh plugs (two or three plugs and interchange clean for dirty and clean the dirty one so you can rotate) then read what the plug is telling you INCLUDING heat range and timing.

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Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

by the looks of the highlighted fog/smog in your picts its running way rich, lights are awesome though.

sometimes the pull choke isnt closing all the way, pull it out and take a look at the indentation on the rubber plunger, u may need adjustment.

sometimes the floats not closing letting some gas dribble in, adjust float height

there's a wiki on tuning the phbg

im guessing smaller main, make sure u have the fat needle like ghram mentioned and raise it up to richen low end.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Def jetting and pipe as pat and the Lordt Rebel Moby has suggested, on my small port 70 Airsal I’m running an 82 jet, granted I have an LC head, still your jetting is nutz high

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

DrGeorgeTompson (Alan) /

I am also running a stock pipe (albeit modified a little for more flow) on my 21 PHBG/Polini case/Metrakit pug and it does the same shit. Does great and grunts it's way through low rpms just fine, but really starts to shit the bed and four stroke around 40mph. Sometimes i can kinda blip the the throttle a bit and it will rev a little higher but it's still mondo dogass.

When i had an expansion chamber it ripped dicks but also rattled itself apart a lot faster. Idk, i like the quiet, reliable life these days.

Also, i think i have a mid 90's jet on my bigger carbed, better breathing motor sooooooo

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Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Ok so yes, i know the jetting is high and I don't really know why. the 108 jet is definitely lean and I did a bunch of air leak testing to see if that was a possible problem. I didn't find anything...

is it possible that my jetting is so crazy high due to my lack of a good expansion chamber exhaust? My current exhaust is really wet and oily all most of the time. since I'm not getting those good reversion waves pushing the un-burned fuel back into the cylinder it ends up all over my exhaust and road, I then need to jet it really high to make up for the fuel loss that is happening because of a high performance two stroke with aggressive port timings.

If this is the case than for now i will just throw like a 110 jet in, tune it as close as I can, and look at getting a expansion chamber exhaust like within the next few weeks so I can get this thing rippin!

Again this is all theoretical but it sounds good to me. Just Let Me Know What You Think...

By the way, I currently am running a AU262 atomizer and AU bushing. And a W7 needle on the second clip setting down from the top.

Also, Thanks to everyone who has chipped in and shared their knowledge!

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Just drop that jet to an 80 and roll the dice

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

how about that variator side crank seal, i have pinched them from hastily installing a crank before, they catch on the sharp edge of the step. they are notoriously hard to leak test.

for some reason those case reed bikes like peugeots and hobbits run just, really weird with crank seal leaks... i had a 103 that drove me nuts for 5 months with 'ignition' problems before i finally got so frustrated i just rebuilt the whole engine... sure enough, totally blown crank seal... ran great just had bizarro issues.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Yeah Graham, that is possible... i literally just did a rebuild with new bearings and seals so it's not busted cause it's old but i may have screwed it up when i assembled it. I was pretty carefull and smeared everything with grease as I assembled it but still... could I pull the vario drill start the engine and then leak test it with starting fluid that way?

Unfortunately I busted the clutch pad plate thingy so I can't do a whole lot of testing till that comes...

I am thinking about just throwing an 80 jet on and seeing what that feels like. Maybe richen the needle up a little so I rochen up the low end but maybe be close on the top end. Idk...

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Soooo.... I think I am going to buy a pipe. I am going to keep goofing with the carb, and planning on eventually building a pipe for peugeot, but for now, I just want to get this thing rippin. I know that a pipe probably wont solve all my problems but I might as well put a pipe on and jet it to that instead of wasting time with the sausage chamber that isn't gonna stick around long term anyway. all that to say, what pipe should I get???

I dont really know what kind of performance and durability come with some of these pipes so I would love some feedback. Some key factors here for me are cost, performance (of course), and I would sure like to keep my pedals.... Right now, I'm looking at the Simonini circuit from treats. Its cheep. Its easy to mount. and pedals can stay. how is that pipe? will it work well with my setup? will it break in the first mile?

I also love the looks of the polini sport pipe, doppler pipe, and MVT SP2. I have also heard that these have great high rpm performance and I would definitely consider them if the simo is trash... let me know...

If there are any good wiki pages or websites or manuals or anything with more info on french performance exhausts, pleases send it my way! Just want more info!

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Ilia Edouardovich /

Unless you know how to weld I would avoid circuit pipes altogether. They all suck due to poor build quality, but do have the best low end. In my opinion the MVT and Ninja G3 (replica or original) are your best options. Research the G3. Not much info out there on the MVT.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

So yes that is a good point. I can weld and have a very good mig/stick/dc tig machine. So fixing the pipe is way less of an issue than price. So what is the Simo performance like compared to other pipes? And where can I buy a ninja g3? I found the Mvt for sale on dos but couldn't find the g3 anywhere.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

> Ilia Edouardovich Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Unless you know how to weld I would avoid circuit pipes altogether.

> They all suck due to poor build quality, but do have the best low end.

> In my opinion the MVT and Ninja G3 (replica or original) are your best

> options. Research the G3. Not much info out there on the MVT.

The og version for sure, but I have a replica, and I’m not impressed, it has the leakiest ball joint of my...Simo circuit, Doppler, Gianelli, Polini Utah, and my Polini Country pipe (which I totally ran over), the id of the flange is smaller then any of my other Peugeot pipes, I’m just unimpressed, which is a bummer because the chamber looks sick

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

> Toledo Riot Wrote:

> The og version for sure, but I have a replica, and I’m not impressed, it

> has the leakiest ball joint of my...Simo circuit, Doppler, Gianelli,

> Polini Utah, and my Polini Country pipe (which I totally ran over), the

> id of the flange is smaller then any of my other Peugeot pipes, I’m just

> unimpressed, which is a bummer because the chamber looks sick

Your talking about the G3 right?

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

> Caleb Walker Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Toledo Riot Wrote:

>

> > The og version for sure, but I have a replica, and I’m not impressed,

> it

>

> > has the leakiest ball joint of my...Simo circuit, Doppler, Gianelli,

>

> > Polini Utah, and my Polini Country pipe (which I totally ran over),

> the

>

> > id of the flange is smaller then any of my other Peugeot pipes, I’m

> just

>

> > unimpressed, which is a bummer because the chamber looks sick

>

> Your talking about the G3 right?

The G3 Replica yes

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

So you said you have used the Simonini circuit how does it compare to other pipes? I Would really like a pipe that's cheap easy and got a good low range power. So I guess I should just search the buy sell forum for a g3 if I go that route correct?

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

> Caleb Walker Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So you said you have used the Simonini circuit how does it compare to

> other pipes? I Would really like a pipe that's cheap easy and got a good

> low range power. So I guess I should just search the buy sell forum for

> a g3 if I go that route correct?

Ya, I’m a big fan of those pipes, great low and mids, no top end, but that’s how most good circuits work, it gives you the ability to play with your gearing

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

hmmm... ok I am gonna do more research before I make a decision but i think I'll look around for a used pipe and a treatland discount code and if I don't decide to go with something better and more rippy and cant find a used g3 or something else cool for sale i'll just get the simo and play with that a little. I can always get something else if its boring... seems like allot of the awesome pug/motobecane pipes are sold out on treats and dos... any of you guys used the simo on a fifty cc cylinder?

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

> Caleb Walker Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> hmmm... ok I am gonna do more research before I make a decision but i

> think I'll look around for a used pipe and a treatland discount code and

> if I don't decide to go with something better and more rippy and cant

> find a used g3 or something else cool for sale i'll just get the simo

> and play with that a little. I can always get something else if its

> boring... seems like allot of the awesome pug/motobecane pipes are sold

> out on treats and dos... any of you guys used the simo on a fifty cc

> cylinder?

I have it on my 50cc LC Airsal motor

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Ilia Edouardovich /

I would buy the MLM circuit pipe over the Simo. I’ve owned both and never want to see another Simo again. They’re heavier and require much more work to reinforce the poor design. Also, the threaded header is not included and must be purchased separately. The MLM version is better due to being lighter, zero air leaks thanks to the threaded header, only needs the stinger welded on plus a bar welded to replace the stupid spring, and is quite a bit lighter. I’ll snap a pic of mine next time I’m in the garage.

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Hey there guys! so quick update... I already went ahead and ordered the Simonini circuit pipe today from treats. also got some cables plug boot brakes etc. I'm also waiting on a clutch pad and more jets that I ordered from dos that should be here Monday. I prolly wont be doing anything interesting with the bike till I get all the parts. I know the Simo isnt a super cool pipe and doesnt have the best performace. but for now its cheapish available and easy to install (supposedly at least). So for now I will play around with it and have some fun and maybe eventually get a rippy-er racey-er pipe to throw on.

So that is where I'm at. Will post more updates when I get this thing rippin with the new parts...

Also, whats yins favorite french setup? motobecane or peugeot? 50cc or 70cc? Liquid or air cooled? and whatever else...

Oh and what is your thoughts on the peugeot 70cc metrakit kit that treats sells right now? is that a derbi kit adapted to peugeot? do you think it will have the standard french cooling problems? Is that cylinder revvier or gruntier?

Re: Peugeot build update and Questions

Dude I love those simo circuits, I prefer the bolt on over screw in style exhausts. Screw in always back out, the bolt on style exhausts are solid and won’t leak if installed properly

Check out the Zeros YouTube page for some 103 tuning help

If you check out our longer videos like what’s up at the shop 14, I compare a few kits

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