Honda PA Exhaust
Cleaning the Stock Exhaust
The service manual tells us to remove the bolt, and clean away. Note - if your tools is not at least 4-1/2" long, it won't reach far enough to do the job.
Others recommend (and I do too), putting the exhaust inside a pile of charcoal briquets (sp?) and then light them up. Wait until the muffler itself is glowing a nice red or red/orange, then take it out. After it has cooled down, then tap the exhaust on all sides, and the carbon can fall out.
What's Inside this Exhaust Anyway?
One Sunday afternoon, being bored, I thought - I'm going to cut apart an exhaust and find out what's inside. The following pictures speak for themselves.
It has been suggested that the muffler's outlet pipe should be made round. The thought is that when made round, it will increase performance. This picture shows that there is an internal pipe, between the two chambers of the muffler, that has a much smaller inside diameter (see the red circle on the right above) when compared to the muffler's outlet pipe (see the red circle on the left above). You can make yours round, but don't expect any performance increases (unless your outlet pipe was crimped almost shut).
Proma Country Pipe (designed for a Puch)
OK, I was tired of waiting for a “designed for the Hobbit/Camino” pipe to show up (either for sale or used), so I decided to try grafting a cheap pipe onto my Hobbit.
I bought a Proma Country pipe (for a Puch) from mopedshop.com for $60 plus shipping.
The results are good. My town is full of hills. On the last ride (with the stock exhaust), my Hobbit would only pull 20 MPH up a certain hill. On my trial ride (no “dialing in the jet yet”), my Hobbit pulled 27 MPH!
Top speed? Don’t know for sure yet. I could only go about 28MPH (I weight about 250 lbs) on flat and level. So far, on a short straigt, it went 33 or 34 MPH indicated. It may have more in it on a longer straight.
From a stop, I think it lost a tiny bit, but once it is about 5 to 7 MPH, it certainly starts pulling harder than it used to. I’m thinking that I may lighten my variator weights some, since it seems like this would also help acceleration (the new powerband peak seems slightly higher than before).
Downside: The center stand does hit the pipe, preventing it from folding to the fully-up position. Not a big deal for me.
I view this experiment as worth while. If it’ll get a little faster when I match the jet to the pipe, even better. My goal was midrange torque/pulling power, and this goal was met.
One last problem remains: this mod means that I can easily outpull my sons Hobbit in town. He won’t be happy. I’m thinking about grafting a Technigas on his . . . .
LeoVince (designed for a Hobbit)
Just to start I would like to point out that my bike was performing properly before the Leovince, I could hit 30mph on a flat. I also used a gps to measure these speed.
I slapped the pipe on right when I got home from work. Does hurt the low end, but I usually peddle like crazy until I hit 10mph so it doesn’t bug me. Very good acceleration after 10mph. I hit 38mph on the longest flat I could find, if it was longer I think I would have gone faster.
I hit about 43mph going down hill but then I lost all power and the rear wheel locked up (soft seized I think) and I nearly killed my self (luck no one was behind me). I pull over and it fired a couple times then died. Started right back up about a minute later. I need to upjet, I advise everyone with this pipe to upjet or at least do a plug chop.
Here is the best part, I can cruise at 30mph with only using about 1/4 throttle.
Brad's Review (Updated 3/2/09)
The LeoVince Camino pipe is excellent. Good value at $125 shipped. I went from 28mph to 36mph. This thing absolutely rips and sounds great too! Nice ping, ping, ping, exhaust noise. Going this fast, make sure you have the proper oil/fuel mix and good brakes. And I did upgrade from the stock 78 jet to an 80. Make sure to check you plugs so you don't seize with a bigger pipe.
I did add Boyesen performance reeds, which improved acceleration nicely. A good combination with the LeoVince pipe.
Bottom line: The LeoVince Camino pipe is well worth it!
I never used the pipe on the stock setup (PA50 I, 20mph). Over the winter, I put a 70cc Athena kit, variator plate and wieghts, 21mm phbg kit, performance reeds and ported the block. Tuned and dialed in (96 jet) , it does 49-50 (chase car). It will cruise 40 all day at about 1/3 throttle. Stock gears. Gets about 45 mpg give or take. Initial take off is a little weak. i kind of have to push off with my feet but it picks up after about 5 mph and really starts pulling at 20-45. I weigh 205 so if you don’t exceed the bikes rated limits by 55 lbs, the take off probably wouldn’t be an issue.
Overall, I am very pleased with the pipe. Its built solidly, it looks decent, and performs awesome for my driving needs. Get one.
It mounted up flawlessly and looks great. The expansion seems slightly larger in diameter compared to my old Proma Circuit.
First impression… QUIET! That is, compared to my really loud, leaky Proma.
My verdict, the Proma has better mid-range, and top end… I got 52 mph with the Leo Vince and 54 mph with the Proma. I do however like the solid construction of the Leo and plan to run it for a while. I’ll also shorten the pipe on the rear (just a bit) to bring the silencer closer to the expansion like the Proma.
I also plan to drill out the rivets and remove the baffle material, then re-rivet.
Just my .02 about my experience with the Leo Vince so far…
Kawasaki KX80 Pipe
Good top end without much loss in the low. Its a noped right now, but still takes everyone else in denver off the line. Im working on one for a minerelli (motron) right now, haven't been able to ride it yet but bench tests prove very high rpm's.
Pocket Bike Pipe
K & R Tech's Review
This first thing that I did was to buy a spare muffler. I ordered a PA50I muffler, but received a PA50II muffler. It turned out however, that the outside diameter of the PA50II muffler was the same as the new muffler – and also that the outside diameter was almost exactly the inside diamater of a standard 3/4” copper pipe union (used for home water supply (plumbing part)). The union was a bright copper color, but the heat has darkened it some so that it is not that noticeable. I haven’t yet “soldered” the pipes to the union, and so far, I don’t need to. The fit is pretty tight, and the exhaust is pretty unrestricted, so I may not have to do the solder. Ok, if you’ve read the past posts, you know that we have a PA50I cylinder, and it is commonly known that a PA50II muffler will not mate up with a PA50I cylinder. So, I looked around the garage, and found an oxygen sensor bung that I had bought for my Ford project (to weld on a header). This standard bung was a very good fit for the cylinder, and also mated well to the PA50II headpipe. The inside diameter off the bung provides no restriction for the PA50II headpipe as well.
Anyway to implement the idea, I needed to replace the exhaust studs with longer ones. Easy.
I cut the headpipe from the PA50II muffler, and did several trial fitups, then cut it shorter, and then shortened the end of the muffler. Since the PA50II muffler headpipe could pivot on the cylinder, and amount of adjustment was available to get the best fit.
I had bought three copper unions, a straight, a 45, and a 90 degree angle. The straight not only looked the best, so it was used. The tab that came with the muffler had to bent somewhat to fit, but not too much. The length of the tab was just right to allow for a mounting to the frame. Then I had to notch the cover so it would fit flush over the tab.
All-in-all, the new muffler fit well, and works well too. My son reports that the moped has gone 27 MPH so far, and he thinks it would go faster on a longer flat. When climbing a hill it has gained about 2 or 3 MPH, too. He is really impressed with the improvement. He also likes the sound. It is certainly louder, but not so much to be obnoxious, or objectionable to the average person. I’d put the volume at or slightly less than the typical 2-stroke weedwacker.
Anyway, my son (15-year old) now says that his moped seems more like a motorcycle than a moped. I guess if it makes him happy, then I am happy, too.
New step: porting the PA50I cylinder to PA50II specs. Maybe within a month or so . . . .
Mobyman (Graham Motzing) Review
This is a review of this same pipe - NOT on a Hobbit . . . .
well, the ride home with this thing was interesting, exactly what i figured would happen but way more dramatic than i had expected. aside from sounding like hell opening up under my ass, the low end was absolutely pathetic, no midrange either, and i was struggling to make 20 mph. the surprising part was on a long straight stretch, once i hit 30 mph, the bike just about pulled my teeth out, the 30-40+ range accel was absolutely sick.
in summary: if you want a pipe that is only good for top end but will take a stock puch to nearly forty, the five dollar ebay pipe is a good choice. otherwise, dont waste your money, totally crap. i think tomorrow morning i’m going to take it out on a long straightaway to see what it does, then take it off and throw it out.
I tested several performance pipes on my Camino (I'm from Belgium) and could add some info about them. So I think I will just do that.
LeoVinci has 3 types, but as far as we found out they all perform the same. I haven't got a first generation, but I've had several 2nd and 3rd generation LeoVinci's.
What I lik about a LeoVinci on a Camino or Hobbit:
- Nice sound, not in your face like a Proma. - VERY well build ! I know cause for a year I am renewing them. Very solidly build ! - Nice overall performance - Looks great underneath the Camino
What I don't like about the LeoVinci on a Camino or Hobbit: - My stand hitting the muffler - The second gen (rivitted) muffler is hard to take apart to change damping material.
Performance on my engine with Biturbo 65 cc Aluminium cilinder and scoot variator is close to 80 km/h (51 mph) with decent acceleration without any dip. Gotta say that almost all pipes do +50 mph on my Camino since I've put the scooter variator on.
So not much to complain here, like said it's a good pipe. I will compare them with the others in the conclusion.
Ninja Vario 2 pipe
This pipe has been a true surprise to me. I bought it to test it after I renewed it. The header has a rather narrow entry (17 mm) so I didn't expect much... I was wrong ! This pipe rocks !! It accelerates like a LeoVinci but is faster. 52 mph with this pipe and a very nice, smooth sound. Very "friendly" sounding. The sound doesn't attract too much attention, but the look does.
What I like about the Ninja (snake) on my Camino:
- The sound is sweet, really suger sweet. - Performance is amongst the top, topspeed better then average - Looks great under a Camino - Rare pipe, not something everyone has.
What I don't like about the Ninja (snake) on my Camino
- Stand hitting the muffler
I like this one much more then the LeoVinci, it has character. People love the NINJA sticker, it stand for awesome I think. I will compare it to others in the conclusion.
This in an odd pipe, with it's wave shape. But it does look good on my Camino. It's a proma which has never been too popuar, that's why they still pop up new in 2016.
What I like about the Lowboy on Camino:
- The sound ! most definatly the nicest sound ever ! - The way it looks on my Camino
What I don't like about the Lowboy on my Camino:
- The stand hitting the pipe itself - Poor acceleration - Very poor topspeed
So there it is, this one's performance was clearly not on par with the previous. Acceleration was more like a stock pipe and topspeed seemed to get stuck at only 42 mph. So it looked good, but performed poor.
(the real deal) with APC and double Polymer muffler.
In the states, you never got these. It's the first generation of big Proma pipes. It standard had a oval muffler which sounded really "in your face" twostroke like. But I love it, you can't ignore it. At the header there's a aluminium barrel, called the Air Pressure Chamber which was supposed to change behavior of this pipe, but it's a sales talk. It doesn't do anything cause Proma left them off the nect Circuit range.
The double Polymer muffler is an aftermarket show add on, that acually only adds... noise ! Really, this double Polymer drives you crazy with it's loud sound. So most just put it on for looks.
What I like about the Proma Attack on my Camino:
- I love the sudden boost you get, like a turbo kicking in ! - It's the best looking pipe for Camino IMO - The stand doesn't hit the muffler ! - Acceleration beat all competition. - Very decent topspeed, amongst the best ! - The way it's coated when it's new
What I don't like about the Proma Attack on my Camino
- The way the coating deteriorates straight out of the store, even if still in the bag. - The filmsy mounting brackets - The filmlsy flange - Overall build quality is poor
Still this has alway been my favorite pie for camino. That has everything to do with it's performance ! It's simply the most fun exhaust out there on any twostroke moped. Not neccessary the best topspeed, but very decent wit 52 mph. It's just the way it gets to topspeed - in one straigh acceleration spee - with no dips or drops ! The pipe performed best with the original oval muffler, that's the shortest one too. The lenght of the stinger has a big say in the engin' output power. This pipe performs best when it's at it's shortest.
I still have some pipes laying around to test, like the Ninja Usine, a high rev pipe, and a Simonini S, also a high Rev pipe. But that's for another time, too busy renewing exhaust pipes to sell.
From the four pipes mentioned above, my choice is the Proma Attack (Circuit performs the same), but I actually use the stainless version of Moped1977 because it looks rad and stays perfect ! But on build quality the LeoVinci takes the lead without any doubt. And the LeoVinci does not perform bad at all ! It's avery good pipe ! The Ninja is not very well known, but a perfect pipe for those who want Leo performance with a better looking and more special pipe. You can forget about the lowboy unless you want a good looking pipe that doesn't add too much performance.
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